I don't see any cuts to Hatrick's bonus situation, nor his bulging office staff. Where are the cutbacks at the Ashburn Taj Mahal? Quit chopping in schools and cut back the chiefs!

Posted by GenuineRisk (anonymous) on March 24, 2009 at 8:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excuse me, what about the above listed cuts will "severely impact the quality of students' education" as claimed by the School Board??

Posted by dbc007 (anonymous) on March 24, 2009 at 9:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I notice there are no cuts for bureaucratic or middle management salaries and/or positions. Instead our students and teachers are taking the hits.

Posted by Chuckled (anonymous) on March 24, 2009 at 11:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Way to go Board of Supervisors! Don't listen to the comments made by the voting public regarding NOT cutting the school board budget! Moving to a Tier I budget will mean I should try not to get sick since I won't be able to get a substitute, forget about taking courses that will continue to develop my teaching skills since there will be no funding for staff development and not plan to take my students on any field trips! I hope you start looking for a new position Ms. McGimsey because you have lost my support!

Posted by Babyduck1974 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 7:29 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Welcome to the real world. If you are in private industry, you can't get sick because you risk getting laid off. Everybody is taking cuts, it has to include the school system. Be thankful you have a job that provides health insurance. I say way to go Andrea McGimsey for doing the right thing.

Posted by livingloco (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 7:45 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sorry Babyduck1974 but the opinions of the "voting public" are finally shifting and I am greatful for that. The spending for the schools has been way out of control far too long and it is time that we get this under control and keep it under control

ALL of us in the working world have to try not to get sick and most of us don't get a substitute if we do. There will still be substitutes or other ways to cover you in case you are too sick to teach but the sky won't fall if the substitute budget is cut by 20%. I did not see where they are completely cutting staff development programs only a reduction in several. In times like these, it makes sense to temporarily cut back on non-essintial programs like this and others like field trips. Understand that many of us are seeing cutbacks at our jobs and we worry that we may not even have a job next week.

Posted by JustMeSterling (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 8:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am so sorry the BOS came to this decision. It will have a negative effect on their political careers. Had they had the guts to make the cuts that needed to be made, it would have been a 20 % cut in the school budget and they would have a fair and balanced chance of being reelected.. NOW its time to make sure they go. Oh by they way, tell OB I want my tax cut back that he promised when he wanted my vote

Posted by Funnyguyva (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just echoing GenuineRisk in asking "What about King Hatrick's perks and mansion?" Shouldn't the King also have to take some hits, especially when HIS hits wouldn't impact the kids and worker bees?

Posted by segeny (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 10:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I am very concerned about the RIF cuts.... I don't live in this county however on my budget I could not afford to pay for an apartment here and now there are talks about RIF cuts. I am a single mother with two boys who will both be in school next year. I have no one else to watch my children if they get sick... what am I suppose to do then? I am really upset to learn about all of the things the School Board is not cutting like any administrative jobs, not at the school.... but at the Ashburn Mansion. How will the children feel when their parent who works in education is the one being let go because the Ashburn Mansion can't afford to add a gym in their basements and heat it and take care of their employees at the schools that make the biggest difference????

Posted by livandletluv2 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 11:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Keep in mind that these are the cuts they SAID they'd make if the BOS votes to cut the budget. What they will actually do with the dollars they receive remains in the School Board's hands. Keep the pressure on Hatrick...he's now got some difficult decisions to be made, and needs to be held accountable.

Posted by adrienne.gardner (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 11:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Baby Duck, we all know the public input sessions were orchestrated performances by the PTA's. I got the emails from our PTA and chose to voice MY opiniopn, not the message touted by the school board and teachers.

This is the real world folks. The economy is not going to magically improve and our county is already in debt to the tune of 200 million $. The 33 other agencies and departments in Loudoun County can not be expected to shoulder the burden of the county cuts, esp since they encompass only 25% of the budget. People will lose their jobs in all departments, I don't know why the Schools should be exempt. I wish no one had to lose their jobs, but I also wish I would win the lottery - but it aint' gonna happen!

I have a strong suspicion that the scare tactics of the School Board and Hatrick will not come to fruition. The tiers 1, 2, and 3 have moveable parts and some how, some way they will be able to have a lesser effect on the school system than has been portrayed.

Posted by cheekymonkey (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at noon (Suggest removal)

The real world, livingloco? People get sick all the time and miss work. Freely. Now if you are talking about owning your own store, fine. But look at the IT industry. Look at the jobs of alot of these parents. They can take a day off because of sickness. They can go to their child's play at school in the middle of the day. They can go watch March Madness basketball in the middle of the day. I am not a teacher but I KNOW teachers have limited flexibility in terms of taking days off. Hell, even leaving the classroom to go to the restroom is an issue for teachers. So

Posted by michael34 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 12:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

No matter how you slice it, Loudoun Schools spent way more than Fairfax does as a percent of the overall County budget - and that does not include the capital budget. How is Fairfax so successful with substantially less than Loudoun??? I have kids in the schools so I have a vested interest in good schools but not necessarily gold-plated schools. Let's look at the non-teaching positions - how many deans do we need, how many parent advocates, how much do we spend on mandarin Chinese for a couple dozen sudents, why are the tiny schools with less than 100 kids still open? etc etc etc. There is lots of room to cut way more than $27 mm without affecting the overall quality of education one bit. Hatrick says to expect 2500 new students next year. That translates to 125 new teaching positions at 20 per class. How many new staff psoitons are there? A mutliple of 125. Dont tell m the kids will be stupid if we don't give the schools more money. It's just not true. The fact is the School Board needs to make some decisions that they have never had to make before. They better get used to the new reality.

Posted by rjburnsva (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 12:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rjburnsva, One point on FFX vs Loudoun, FFX County has a much larger commercial tax base. FfX has more to spend and they do per student because their overall annual budget is much larger because of their tax base.

All of your questions and points are good ones. Add to my suspicions (from above) that due to the economy we will NOT see 2500 new students next year. Loudoun went from #1 fast growing county to #28 in less than 2 years, we are seeing a massive slowdown and the old "we are outgrowing our schools" does not fly anymore.

There is a huge difference between wants vs needs, and Hatrick is going to find out what he really needs, and it will probably not include Mandarin Chinese.

Posted by cheekymonkey (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 1:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have been a full-time employee with LCPS for 10 plus years. My combined salary for ten years, still doesn't equal Dr. Hatrick's annual salary. What is going on here?

Posted by kgg64 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 1:50 p.m. (Suggest removal)

We need to cut our bloated gold plated school budget even more. We could have cut it twenty percent, and dealt with it.

Twenty five percent of the houses for sale in Loudoun are foreclosures. Hundreds eating at churches. People are desperate and hungry.

Crime is rising, with so many unemployed. Public safety needs to be our first priority. Then feeding and housing those most hurt by the downturn. Then the schools.

Dr. Hatrick should volunteer to work for at least half of his present salary and give back his monthly car payment and other perks (just like the AIG execs worked for $1) before he cuts one teaching position. And all other higher paid administrative types should volunteer to give back their salaries or part of their salaries if their "family income" is more than $250,000 (if you apply the Obama/Congressional standards.) How about some of these well paid folks stop expecting us to fund their big salaries???

Posted by MANN12 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 2:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

KGG64-- maybe you will get the rif notice if you only have 10 years?

livandletluv2-- I am like you, I only use the school system for child care, especially when they are sick, said the doctor?

Posted by Funnyguyva (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 2:09 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Babyduck1974...and anyone crazy enough to think this was a bad move for supervisors.....
THIS IS THE YEAR we've been waiting for.
Hatrick pulls this crap every year. He parades the pathetic fools with no real economics reality in front of the Supervisors. It's in his actual play book.
This year, in this economic downturn, in this reality, with these five fiscally conservative Supervisors (used loosely - as I'd have started the cuts around 80 Million -- in the tier 3 negotiations)...the supermajority of the taxpayers out here in the real world have these guys backs. If you want an endless supply of gold-plating on your kids school experience, May I suggest that you start packing? Those days are over in Loudoun.

Posted by Bulletproof (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Do people realize that we spend nearly $300,000 per class in Loudoun (23 students multiplied by $13,000 per student). I bet if we gave $300,000 to some savvy business people they would find a way to educate far more than 23 kids for that, have a nice facility, pay teachers more than they are paid by the county, and make a tidy profit. If I were a teacher and confident in my abilities I would be screaming from every mountain and mole hill in Loudoun to take the schools away from the county. I bet the private sector wouldn't have a 'dean' for each grade 6 - 12.

Posted by dbc007 (anonymous) on March 25, 2009 at 10:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The Supervisors that "have voted" for only a 5%, the lowest of the three, should read these comments about "KING HATRICK", and the middle mgrs APPARENTLY who are NOT taking any cuts whatsoever. Can this be?
This economic situation ALL of us find ourselves in is indeed unfortunate, and
it follows that ALL of us need to "tighten our belts" there should be no exceptions across the "board".
Just look around at the Foreclosures that have happened and will continue to happen.
Look at the jobless figures-
Sum total-read all the comments here and make your own assessment of them.
There for the first time, we see the true
feelings of most of the Loudouners who are really hurting-and approve of the "mere-lowest" proposed cut of the school board' inflated budget. Most are asking for more than a 5% cut.
This is NOT asking much of an already bloated school budget whereas they are asking for every taxpayer in Loudoun County
to, once again, PAY MORE TAXES-
THE TYPICAL LOUDOUNER IS ALREADY "TAXED OUT"
OUR SUPERVISORS SHOULD REPRESENT THE MAJORITY
OF ALL THE TAXPAYERS AND BALANCE ALL THE INEQUITIES OF THE PAST IN OUR PROPERTY TAX BILLS. THE FOUR OTHERS WHO DID NOT JOIN THE MAJORITY-TAKE HEED IF YOU VALUE YOUR JOB.
THE PEOPLE WILL NOT FORGET YOUR ACTIONS.

Posted by odellba (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 8:27 a.m. (Suggest removal)

As a parent who has battled LCPS administration for years and has an intimate knowledge of the schools own planning documents I can assure you there are more administrative positions and padding in the LCPS budget then you can even imagine. We have the documentation to prove it.
If anyone is interested in why their tax dollars keep rising take a look at the connection between the administration and the developers. Then look at the attendance at Creighton's Corner built for 800 students and purportedly to accommodate growth. It is less than 1/4 full. Where are all the students that necessitated building this 20 million dollar structure? Don't worry - they will just redraw the boundary lines and bus students in from another neighborhood.

Posted by cpassarello (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 11:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I have an idea where a lot of money could be cut. How about zeroing out funding for English as a Second Language (ESL)? I think the budget for that program is around $9M per year.

If your kids can’t speak the language of the host country, then do what I would have to do if I lived in a foreign country. Find a private school that teaches in a language my kids understood or get them enrolled in an emersion language course on my own dime.

Truth be told, if I knew I was moving my family to a foreign country, I would make arrangements for all of us to learn that language before moving there. This is exactly what legal immigrants to this country do. We all know why kids in our schools can’t speak English. It’s because their parents dragged them across the border illegally and Loudoun County refuses to ask for proof of residency upon enrollment. So we, the citizens and legal residents, who have been paying our fair share all along, have to suck it up and take it in the shorts.

Oh, and asking school bus drivers to drive their own vehicles when shopping at Costco might cut down on fuel charges.

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 12:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

odellba, you must not have attended or followed any of the BOS meetings in which the majority of the speakers were speaking to not cut the school board budget any further. So you are right the people will not forget their actions in not listening to their request to keep the school board budget as presented by Mr. Bowers.

Posted by Babyduck1974 (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 12:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Babyduck1974,
What percentage of the taxpayers/voters would you say were at that meeting? If it is the same meeting I saw clips of on the news, it was just a meeting of theatrics and elephant tears. Believe me, many more voters are writing and calling letting supervisors know that enough is enough.

Posted by JustMeSterling (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Before anyone sheds a tear for Hatrick and the school board, remember they were only spending $6,890 to educate a child back in FY 2000. Even with the $27 million in "cuts" they will still be spending something like $12,500 a child, which is an increase of more than double the rate of inflation! The budget is still fat and tax bills are still too high. Good for the BOS for taking a step in the right direction, but they should be implementing the tier 2 & 3 cuts, as well.

Posted by Loudountag (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 5:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ha ha. Yeah, way to spend $7,000 dollars for every room in the county on those stupid promethium boards last year. Ha. Biggest joke ever.

Posted by michael.jarrell (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 5:13 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Babyduck1974,
Time to wake up and smell the coffee. You know why I wasn't there? Because I have a REAL JOB that requires me to be there on weekends, federal holidays (which we only get the "major ones" off - no Presidents Day vacation here!), and sometimes at a REAL JOB, you get called in during the middle of the night when the system crashes, or have to stay and fix something when you wish you could be "making your voice heard", but you had to take a job with almost constant on-call status just to eke out enough of a living to buy one of the cheapest homes in the county. Taxpayers like me are SICK AND TIRED of people like you demanding that we cough up more every year for your system...

Posted by Hoqenishy (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 5:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The bonds are coming due on all those schools we voted to fund in previous elections. (Well, I didn't, bu most of you did.) Some of those schools are less than 50% capacity while Stone Bridge is over capacity and probably needs additional funding because of that. That's one of the problems. But, no one wants to re-district anyone out of Stone Bridge. That would be against the rules.

The other problem is exactly what is killing California and other southern border states... paying our hard-earned money for people who broke the law -- illegal aliens. LCPS refuses to ask parents of kids enrolling to prove residency. Guess who is paying their way? WE ARE!

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 7:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hoqenishy,
If by REAL JOB you mean being in a classroom with High School Behavior Disorder students, that cuss you out, spit in your face, and bring weapons to school to "intimidate you", all the while the tax paying parents say "it's your job to fix him, not mine", then you MUST work with me in one of the Ashburn high schools. Believe me, I earn every day off I get after being locked up with your "precious darling" every day.

Posted by critter1227 (anonymous) on March 26, 2009 at 10:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

For those of you saying more can be cut, state what those cuts are. I have yet to see gold plated anything at the schools. I do see teachers working hard to give our students a great education.

Hoqenishy, if you hate your job so much get a new one. Don't blame teachers who DO work on holidays, DO work weekends, DO work hours past the end of the school day, DO pay out of their own pocket for supplies. Teachers DO have real jobs, they DO lose their annual raises, they DO have their health insurance cost more by higher premiums and co-pays.

Posted by momova (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 10:58 a.m. (Suggest removal)

momova,

Cut the funding for English as a Second Language -- $9M annual savings -- and make parents prove residency and legal immigration status upon enrollment. The latter would probably save the remaining $18M.

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 11:15 a.m. (Suggest removal)

conservfoevr,
State and Federal No Child Left Behind laws require ESL to meet standards. U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Plyler vs. Doe [457 U.S. 202 (1982)] that undocumented minors have the same rights as U.S. citizens and permanent residents to an education. The school system, by Federal law, cannot identify and stop undocumented minors from admission to schools.

Posted by momova (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 12:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

momova,

Therein lies the problem. Instead of bickering with each other over what should and shouldn't be cut from a budget supported by our local tax dollars, perhaps we should all be calling, emailing, pressing our congressmen and senators to get the damn law changed so we're not required by law to fund illegal activities... such as illegal entry to the US. That is precisely why California and Arizon are in so much financial trouble. Our turn is coming.

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 12:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

That is fine and if those are your beliefs then you should do exactly that. However that does not affect the current budget issue. The BOS and SB need to make decisions now on what is before them now.

Posted by momova (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 1:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

momova,

You're right, it doesn't impact the current budget issue. It's a big part of the reason why we are haveing budget issues, but it can't be resolved in time for this budget.

But, it can be resolved in time for next year's budget, and the year after that and the year after that.

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 3:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't think most ESL children are illegal. Their parents might no longer be legal, but the child likely was born in the US making them a US Citizen. Some of the children were born here while the parents were here legally and then the parent's immigration status changed and the family did not leave. It's a little like parking your car in a 2 hour spot and returning 3 hours later. Illegal but not criminal.

Who is advocating that we punish children who are US citizens by deporting them to another country because of the sins of their parents? Heartless!

Posted by EdwardMyers (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EdwardMyers,

Ok, follow me on this one. Let's say you sneak your family illegally into Russia, or Greece, or Mexico and your wife is pregnant. She has the baby in that country.

1. The baby should not be a citizen, but is. We have that law on our books to ensure that children of slaves, who came here not of their own free will, are given citizenship status, and rightfully so. That law is not meant as a welfare stamp for any pregnant illegal alien who gets across the border just in time to give birth. That law needs to be repealed – retroactively.

2. Let’s say the new host country does give citizenship to babies born in that country (NOT!). Would you do everything in your power to make sure your “citizen child” speaks the language before school age so the rest of your family gets doesn’t get discovered? Or, maybe you would choose to live in the American barrio – sorry, there’s none in that country – so you don’t have to prepare your citizen child to succeed in the new host country. After all, don’t we all like funding long-term welfare programs while we can’t manage to pay our own bills with our own money?

3. Getting back to the children of slaves – or the decedents of slaves – maybe the money spent to fix the problems that are occurring in that demographic so the black children in this country have a better chance of getting educated.

And I don’t have a heart? You are misguided, sir.

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 27, 2009 at 8:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Critter1227:
"and bring weapons to school to "intimidate you""...
Are you saying that kids are bringing real weapons into your classroom? I was under the impression that law enforcement was present at each school. Were they notified?

Posted by JSolGen47 (anonymous) on March 29, 2009 at 9:48 a.m. (Suggest removal)

JSolGen47,

Dude, sorry to tell you that a month or two ago, some kids threatened to blow away some folks at Briar Woods over the weekend before the action was to occur. Law enforcement knew about the threat but chose not to release the information to the parents and student of Briar Woods students.

The kids who made the threat actually showed up in the school, and the carrier said he had a gun in his backpack. Students believed him and got the hell away from him. I personally got calls from my kid who asked permission to leave school. I gave it. I got another call from a teacher friend who corroborated what my son told me. School administration and teh LCSO was clueless.

Afterward, when the administration was queried, they refused to admit there was any incident or any problem. They said the perpetrator was never in the school.

Laughable, since both students and teachers saw him there. Unfortunately, the Loudoun County SRO didn’t see him since he was too busy busting kids for exceeding the speed limit in a school zone. (At Briar Woods there is ever a student walking between the reduced speede signs.) Pathetic!

The kids who made the threat were expelled from Briar Woods. Apparently, when you get expelled from school in Loudoun Count, you only get expelled from that specific school since the kid who allegedly made the threat and had the gun ended up at Stone Bridge a month later threatening another kid with a gun on a school bus.

Check it out in the press. It’s all there if you can connect the dots.

Your public school system at work for you! Welcome to the new Loudoun County.

Posted by conservforevr (anonymous) on March 29, 2009 at 10:10 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why argue on what a "real job" is when what we are talking about is a bloated school budget? A job is a choice, if you don't like it find another one! Geez.

Conserv, I hadn't heard any of the weapons scenarios in the press, do you mean local Loudoun papers? IF so, which ones?

I have a warning for parents, if you think schools are dangerous perhaps you should worry more about the LCSO budget than the LCPS budget, they are truly stretched.

Posted by cheekymonkey (anonymous) on April 1, 2009 at 10:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

cheekymonkey, as stated above, please layout your plan to cut the bloated school budget, details please

Posted by momova (anonymous) on April 2, 2009 at 7:57 a.m. (Suggest removal)