Your last two paragraphs speak volumes.

1. Ashburn Farm is not a high-growth area of Loudoun -- it is fully built out and our boundaries need to stop shifting, especially when we're looking at moving our kids further away from our community.
We should not be paying such a huge price for lack of planning on the part of Leesbug/Lansdowne's growing neighborhoods.

2. Regarding school board members, I've heard that Bob Ohneiser (known for pitching his pet projects at back-to-school nights) locked in the Broad Run boundaries in Dec. so his kids wouldn't get hit by any changes.

Lastly, those numbers of how many kids will be affected sounds like it is just the immediate numbers. In the near and far future how many Ashburn Farm kids will be bused out of the community to school?

I'm so happy to see Broadlands HOA and residents and Dulles South residents opposing Adamo's plan. Thank you all for weighing in!

Adamo & staff: Ashburn Farm is being sliced and diced to make neat pieces of the pie for other parts of the county, while we are looking like that goop left in the middle. This is just so, so wrong.

Posted by insideoutblog (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 3:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Looking at the Leesburg growth patterns, it becomes clear that the Leesburg high schools will fill up in a matter of years," he said. "It doesn’t make sense to send those [Lansdowne] kids to Leesburg when a few years later they’ll need to be sent back to Stone Bridge." I would like to see the information he uses for this assessment? That sounds like a Lansdowne problem. It doesn't make sense to bus kids to Briar Woods who can walk to Stone Bridge. I have an idea we should split Lansdowne and send their kids "who are already being bused" to Stone Bridge and send them to Leesburg. When the Leesburg school fills. Then we split Lansdowne between Stone Bridge and Briar Woods.

Posted by ed (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

It's not just a matter of 274 Ashburn Farm kids this is going to displace. It's the trickle down effect and overcrowding of the other school as a result of the displacement. Lansdowne needs to get zoned into Leesburg. Period. That's the only sensible and fiscally responsible solution.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Ashburn Farm needs to be left in Stone Bridge and the Stone Bridge boundaries closed. With the community being stable, the student population will stabalize within a certain range. It will not shift as dramatically as it would with areas still developing (Lansdowne/Leesburg). If the Leesburg schools fill as Leesburg develops, then deal with it in Leesburg. Leave Ashburn Farm at Stone Bridge and then leave them alone.

Posted by kimtl (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 4:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Does anyone really think Loudoun will continue be a "high growth" area for the next 10 years? Seems that with the current recession, we could experience a leveling off or decline in the general population.

So, shouldn't Broadlands community be concern about overcrowding at Briar Woods? Is that what you want for your kids? Overcrowded classrooms? Higher students to teacher ratio?

Yes, communities are not "immune to boundary changes". So how many boundary changes have effected the Lansdowne community? Why should they be immune from the growing pains associated with Loudoun's growth?

Posted by carl2t (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 4:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The only stable areas of Loudoun (schoolwise) are those that are built out.

We aren't going to be seeing a lot of major boundary adjustments in the Sterling area, for instance.

Dulles and Broad Run are still growing, but the goop in the middle of the pie metaphor is apt.

As long as schools continue to be built where the people are bused TO, instead of where the people LIVE, that Ashburn pie gets mashed more and more.

Yes, there is a trickle down effect too; with the people moved from Stone Bridge into Briar Woods, that leaves less room for the people actually GROWING in the Briar Woods cluster.

With South Riding middle schoolers bused into Stone Hill, that leaves less room at Stone Hill for the people growing THERE.

In a year or two, that will look like crisis numbers. OhmygollygodwebetterbuildHS6 RIGHT AWAY!!!

No.

We need to get MS5 built on schedule ONLY THREE YEARS LATE, and keep HS7 on track so the students down here do not start skewing the Ashburn enrollments again.

Ashburn and Leesburg need to try to make a reasonable arrangement with the schools that exist, and the new one opening at Tuscarora, before rushing into adding a premature school and $100,000,000 to an already painful budget.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 5:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

i know many Broadlands residents are VERY concerned.

Posted by tttrenee (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 5:34 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Adamo is distorting facts to justify his recommendation. He gave us the projections for Leesburg and in the next 5 years, they still don't fill up those schools. Ashburn is not high growth, it's stable. And great.....don't move those Lansdowne kids to a Leesburg school because they're going to end up back at Stone Bridge. How about don't move those Ashburn kids because they're a couple of blocks away from the school. What a jerk!

Posted by wdmiller99 (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 6:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

What I don't get is why has Waters been so interested in making sure citizens down on Rt 50 get a hospital. And at the same time she wants to screw the same Rt 50 folks out of a their approved high school and move it up to Ashburn.
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Double standard? Makes me wonder what motivates her.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 7:02 p.m. (Suggest removal)

In terms of future growth, who stands to grow more? Leesburg area or the Ashburn/Dulles area? Let's see, with the approval of the Dulles Metro line, which, BTW, ends near Loudoun County Parkway, it more likely that Ashburn/Dulles will experience more growth than Leesburg. One Loudoun and the Kincora project at the corner of Rt 28/Rt 7 will also contribute to the growth of the Ashburn/Dulles area.

I think that the numbers provided by Dr Adamo shows that Brambleton was 35% complete vs Lansdowne's 73% completion? Mmnn, what has more room to grow? I'll need to crush all the number to come up with an accurate assessment.

Posted by carl2t (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 7:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Adamo should have been made to produce those numbers showing the high growth of Leesburg.

Plan 592, that shifts Lansdowne to Tuscarora, shows that it will still have 100 empty seats in the 2013 year. And I'd be willing to bet the actual growth will be less than that.
This plan also shows Heritage will have 130 less students in 2013 than they do now and Loudoun County will also have less students than they currently have.
So where's all the growth????
Even if Adamo is eventually shown to be correct, that means there will probably be at least 6-7 years of stability before a change needs to be made.
For Loudoun, that's pretty darn good!

Posted by shevco (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 7:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Carl2t.. After reading many, many blogs with many people tossing out numbers left and right. Leesburg schools are over cap? under cap? Over growth in this area under growth here. No that’s wrong wont be over cap until 2015, wait this project will grow this area? The only thing I have learned is that most of these people (including the school board) don't know what the heck they are talking about. The simple fact is they feel its ok to take x# of students who live next to or within 2 miles of Stone Bridge HS. Put them on busses and ship them off to Briar Woods. So they can ship in x# of students from Lansdowne to Stone Bridge. This will over populate Briar Woods. Not alleviate the overcrowding at Stone Bridge. And on top of that push x# of Briar Woods students to schools also out side of their neighborhoods. Fix.. Keep the Ashburn Farm students at Stone Bridge. Ashburn Farms is at full growth, it’s not going to get bigger. Split Lansdowne send x# of students to bring Stone Bridge up to cap. Send the other Lansdowne students "who already have to be bussed" to Leesburg. With the new boundary we will have a better idea of growth and can plan for another HS if needed.

Posted by ed (anonymous) on March 13, 2009 at 10:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Why do people care? Really...Why? The school buildings are all the same. You have no idea who the teachers and principal will be next year anyway! So much angst over such a trivial issue.

Posted by EdwardMyers (anonymous) on March 14, 2009 at 5:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Kids should go to the school that is closest to them. Overcrowding is everywhere but at least that way the kids are in their own neighborhoods.

Posted by ted_jakubowski (anonymous) on March 14, 2009 at 10:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

EdwardMeyers-people care because by our school board not making the responsible and reasonable decision regarding school boundaries could potentially force us, as taxpayers, to fund a high school many years earlier than necessary to the tune of (from what I've heard) about $100 million. Personally I don't have that kind of cash laying around but I'm sure the county will find a way for me to work out a payment plan. The irresponsible plan I'm referring to (moving Ashburn Farm kids to high schools in Brambleton) would have the added bonus of moving kids out of their neighborhoods to go to schools in other neighborhoods, thereby displacing the other neighborhoods students. It's a ripple effect. All of this could be prevented by the simple act of rezoning the Lansdowne neighborhoods to Leesburg area high schools. There we go, problem solved.
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I agree that no one has the crystal ball to say what is going to be the best performing high school way down the road (and I personally have 8 more years before I get to that point). For me personally I don't care if my kids school is the best performing in the county-what I can tell is that Loudoun County schools are pretty great overall. What I DO care about is that my kid go to the school that's in the neighborhood-that he can walk home from if he misses the bus or wants to stay after for an activity, that he can walk over to friends houses after school on his way home, that he doesn't have to be bussed 5 miles up a very dangerous road when there are 2 high schools within 2 miles of his house that he could easily walk to.
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Unfortunately for Lansdowne (and it IS unfortunate), those kids aren't going to have that opportunity, any way you cut it. Thay are going to have to be bussed somewhere. But their bussing should not prevent kids from being able to attend thier local neighborhood school.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 15, 2009 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The ripple effect qazwsxedcrfv refers to will ripple all the way down to Dulles South. This boundary issue has much larger implications than who goes to school where for the next couple of years. Part of the anger here arises from the political maneuvering that has most likely influenced more than one decision. The people most affected by this are not going to stand idly by and allow this to happen.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on March 15, 2009 at 7:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I just read Erica Garman's article "Drawing th Line Over School Boundary Shifts" in Washington Post's Loudound Extra. Erica, if you're reading, can you add the numbers in year 2, 3, and 4? The staff plan has Stone Bridge over capacity by 404 in 2012 and Briar Woods over by 385. Just 2 years after initiating the boundary change.....the PLAN is to overcrowd these two schools by approximately 25%. We can do better.

Posted by wdmiller99 (anonymous) on March 15, 2009 at 9:56 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There is a meeting of the Ashburn Farm Parents United from 7:00p-9:00pm tonight at the Windmill HOA Office. School Board members Mr. Ohneiser and Mr. Geurin will also be attending.
Please come and support the children of Ashburn Farm.

Posted by bstokes (anonymous) on March 16, 2009 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This has been another difficult boundary season. When we moved from Ashburn Farm (DN28) to Lansdowne we had a freshman daughter, a senior son and a kindergarten son ;)! Our youngest would have gone to Cedar Lane Elem which is listed in the Broad Run cluster in the CIP. Our daughter went to Hillside Elem in Broadlands after an earlier heated boundary session that had Ashburn Farm divided over admission to Sanders Corner. Our two oldest went to 5 different middle schools in six years and our daughter never went to the middle schools that our son had attended.

Both of our older kids have graduated and we are enjoying having a 4th grade son still at home. But when we moved to Lansdowne, we never expected or counted on our youngest attending Stone Bridge HS. I think one of the problems is that there are NO plans to build a Dulles North HS north of the greenway, so all of the high schools are going to be built in "dulles central." Certainly no child wants to moved out of their current high school or split away from friendships that they have developed during their middle school years, but many of us with elementary aged children in Lansdowne are looking at that likelihood with plans that would move the Seldens Landing kids to Belmont Ridge and then send them to a high school that is not in their feed. They would represent maybe 20-25% of any high school grade and they would be attending with youth who had spent all of their middle school years together, allowing the 75% to transition to their high school years with a confidence that our students would not have. This is not about central Loudoun schools not being good enough - all of the high schools in dulles north and central loudoun are very good schools - it's about not intentionally disrupting adolescents during a crucial transition. Give us another high school north of the greenway and let Belmont Ridge feed into it.

There HAS been a fair amount of talk in Lansdowne about HS6. It is my understanding that HS6 was originally in the CIP to be built in 2010; it was moved back a year to 2011; it was then flipped with the new Monroe Tech Center so that HS6 got 2012 and new Monroe Tech got 2011. (These are build dates, not open dates) There has been NO discussion about changing the building and opening of HS7. No one doubts that HS7 needs to be built, we are mostly trying to get these schools unlinked. If there are more delays with HS7, they do not have to directly effect the building of HS6.

Posted by sewcreativeVA (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

SewcreativeVA is right. HS-6 and HS-7 should not be linked. They are both needed. Those that argue that Dulles North can be fixed by Central Loudoun are not looking at all the numbers in the right years. Central Loudoun does NOT have enough empty seats for Dulles North, Dulles North will have THREE high schools not just one that is overcrowded and in need of relief. HS-6 is needed and would not be fiscally irresponsible. Unfortunately the building of a new high school will cause 3 communities to be split. The community of Stone Bridge High School, the community of Briar Woods High School and the community of Broad Run High School. The split can be done however in a way that provides every child in Dulles North to follow their middle school community to high school. People seem to forget that communities are not just HOA's. Dulles North needs another high school. We need to provide stability for ALL our children.

Posted by dullesnorth (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I really think this county needs to do away with the whole feeder school mentality. That plan may have worked in the past but is obviously not working now. Many of us grew up going to middle schools that split into different high schools and we turned out okay.
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"This is not about central Loudoun schools not being good enough - all of the high schools in dulles north and central loudoun are very good schools - it's about not intentionally disrupting adolescents during a crucial transition." Agreed-Ashburn Farm/ Broadlands/ Brambleton and South Riding kids are also under threat of disruption (I believe Ashburn Farm has been rezoned 18 times in 20 years). So they know a little bit about disruption.
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Of course HS6 is needed-it's needed many years down the road if the school board planning people could figure out a way to rezone the underutilized Leesburg schools.
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And the argument of "let's build HS6 now because it will be at a discount because of the economy" makes no sense to me. Let's spend money to save money? Puhleeze!

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 12:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Excuse me, but HS7 has been delayed. It is now a year overdue.

When Freedom was built, it had been pushed back three times.

The pushback with Dominion (which also had seats reserved off the top for an unfunded program) sounds remarkably like the the seats reserved at Tuscarora for an unfunded program.

We played this same game over ten years ago.

Once HS6 is advanced to the same year as HS7, next year we will be talking about switching them.

The area between Route 7 and Ryan Rd. is not some magical musical chair zone filled with "temporary" people in "temporary" communities jumping from "temporary solution" to "temporary solution".

The state of disruption has become permanent for some.

A reasonable boundary needs to be set for the seats already funded at Tuscarora (I thought this was a tight budget? WHY are hundreds of THITEEN-THOUSAND DOLLAR CHAIRS planned to be EMPTY?), and HS7 needs to be built on schedule.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 12:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I have not heard of a good reason not to use the Leesburg schools? Everyone is talking about moving north to south. Why in the world would we want to increase our taxes and fund a $100,000 school when we have enough seats for the children of Lansdowne in Leesburg? Our schools are already having funding problems. "Growth in Leesburg will fill the schools, in about 3 to 5 years.. Not enough room for Lansdown kids in Leesburg." What growth?? Home building has dropped off the map. Move Lansdowne to Leesburg and if in 3-5 years HS6 is needed then fine. But to build HS6 now with the current economic issues, the already very tight and shrinking school budget, and increase taxes when we have the room in Leesburg is very fiscally irresponsible. No way around that.

Posted by ed (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 1:54 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Please e-mail the school board members and the Board of Supervisors with all the thoughts you've posted here. Please mobilize your neighbors to do the same. We do not need to build HS6 prematurely to the tune of $100M plus operating costs when capacity in Leesburg schools are being underutilized. There are boundary plans that make responsible use of all available capacity and give a 1100 seat surplus in Leesburg high schools that are being ignored. The time for HS6 will come, but that time is not now.

Posted by kimtl (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 5:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Please email Board of Supervisors to Fund HS-6 in FY 2010. Funding it now allows us to save $25,000,000 to $30,000,000 in construction for a school that releives THREE high schools, it keeps the county under the $200 million debt cap and it gives the Board of Supervisors greater flexiblity in future years to address capital needs. How is a $30 million savings fiscally irresponsible, how is creating jobs during this time of economic need fiscally irresponsible. HS-6 is needed! Let's stop churning our children. Lets stop referring to them as seats. Let's recognize the investment in giving our children a stable high school experience. Let's do the right thing. Funding HS-6 now SAVES money and creates jobs, how is that fiscally irresponsible?

Posted by dullesnorth (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This whole "if I goto Middle School A then I should go to High School A" is crap. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't some of the kids at Eagle Ridge go to Briar Woods and some go to Stone Bridge?

Why can't some of the kids (Lansdowne) that go to Belmont Ridge go to Heritage/Tuscarora and the other kids (Ashburn Farm/Belmont CC) go to Stone Bridge?

Posted by bstokes (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 5:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yes, let's stop churning the kids in Dulles.

Yes, let's stop playing musical chairs.

Yes, let's set boundaries that don't overcrowd SOME schools (leaving others with many empty seats--making each filled sseat more expensive) by moving A to B, crowd B over to C, and swap out with D next year, making it permanent for any rising high schooler now in or rising to middle school.

No one is going to commit to the fact that moving HS6 up to the same projected opening as DELAYED HS7 means that the two will switch next year during THAT CIP process, but that is how it works.

How do I know?

That's how Dominion jumped Freedom one of the THREE times Freedom was delayed.

Today Mr. Miller announced what his district has known for weeks: he's running for the 86th state house seat.

There is a lot he needs to put right in the district HE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR NOW before he contemplates bailing for Richmond, or he will never get there.

With all of the shafting confined to Dulles district on this school issue, where is the compelling reason for any other district representative to step up to the plate for the Dulles residents?

Our own supervisor might be too busy campaigning.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 6:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"that releives THREE high schools,"

No boundary plan has been adopted yet. The staff recommended plan skews the numbers to make it LOOK like three high schools are overcrowded, but that same plan leaves 1100 empty seats in Leesburg high schools.

Please review Boundary plans 564 and 592. These plans reveal that boundaries can be responsibly drawn so that student population is spread out, communities are not separated, NO school is overcrowded on day 1 the plan goes into effect and, in fact, no school is overcrowded until HS6 is slated to open anyways. It would also be a permanent solution for Stone Bridge since the communities going there would be mature, stable developed communities!

This is all a ploy by Lansdowne and those trying to placate them to stay at Stone Bridge and push the student population south.

We DO NOT need to spend $100M that is NOT BUDGETED and UNAPPROVED BY VOTERS right now on a school that is not needed. HS7 IS needed now and HAS been approved. Build HS7 and wait on HS6 until those in the southern area of Ashburn NEED it.

So, why is Lansdowne trying so hard to stay out of Leesburg high schools? Would someone care to answer that?

Posted by kimtl (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Lets stop referring to them as seats."

BTW, the empty SEATS in Leesburg are just that. They don't have CHILDREN in them, so they are empty SEATS. Put CHILDREN in those seats!

Posted by kimtl (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 6:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I love the speculation that building HS6 now could save us all 25 to 30 million dollars. Says who? The guy with the crystal ball?
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Who knows what the economy is going to look like when it's time to build HS6. I'm going to argue that we may actually save millions and millions by waiting.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 7:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The cost savings generated from building HS6 NOW rather than in the future is based on the difference between the budgeted numbers provided in the CIP and the actual bids received to build Tusc. and Woodgrove. Basic math - no crystal ball required.

Posted by vtvickil (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 8:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

But who's to say what the economy will look like when it's time to build HS6? It could be even worse than now and the cost could be less than now.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 8:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

To buy something just on the idea that it is "cheaper" now than later when budgets are very tight for our schools already??? Sounds like the same plan that got our economy in the mess its in now. HS6 is not needed at this point. We have room in Leesburg.

Posted by ed (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 8:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Let me ask my question again:

Why is Lansdowne trying so hard to stay out of Leesburg high schools? As other residents have been told, "they're ALL Loudoun County schools". So, why can't Lansdowne move to a Leesburg high school?

Answer the question, please.

Posted by kimtl (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 10:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, I've finally heard from more than one place something I'm having a very hard time believing.

Apparently some of those Leesburg seats at Tuscarora are to be reserved for an equine studies program, so they can be closer to Marion DuPont Scott.

Again, we have s-u-u-u-u-ch a TIGHT budget.

Can't fully fund operating.

Next year will be worse.

Parents should PAY if they want little Johnny to play basketball.

And we are keeping seats empty for an equestrian program at the high school level?

Who's going to take it, the kids also studying Mandarin?

Where the hell are we prepping a minute percentage of the population to matriculate, Oxford in the Golden Age of the Lost Generation?

Yes, these are PUBLIC SCHOOLS. Let's DO remember that.

This is so ridiculous it would be laughable if it weren't so bloody infuriating.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 17, 2009 at 10:45 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is unbelievable!

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 6:43 a.m. (Suggest removal)

The answer is HOME SCHOOLING! LCSB and the current admin should be looking for jobs! This is strong arm tactics at its worst.

Posted by Funnyguyva (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 9:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Funnyguyva-unfortunately the school board is made up of elected officials. So take notes now and you will have an opportunity to show your support or displeasure to their decisions down the road.
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Barbara-the equine studies program you are referring to hasn't even been approved by the school board. They made that very clear at the finance meeting this morning. Another thing that came to light was who is responsible for this proposal-drum roll... Lori Waters. It's very clearly her baby, with Supervisor Burton riding that bandwagon all the way home.
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The most shameful thing of this whole mess, and all taxpayers should be paying attention, is that all of the sudden the Board of Supervisors (per Supervisor Burton) can come up with $3.1 million cash to accelerate HS6. But there is no money for county employees, some are being laid off, programs are being cut. But, no prob, let's just pull $3.1 million cash from somewhere for my pet project. Government at its finest, ladies and gentlemen.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

This is unbelievable, too! Now, I am going to step away from my computer before I get anymore stressed out!

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I was at the committee meeting.

That was pretty hilarious when the bomb was dropped by Mr. Guerin that the equine studies weren't funded yet.

It was also pretty hilarious when Mr. Burton "did not recall" the Board giving direction to the school board to bring forward a budget with NO scheduled capital improvements for bond this year.

The best may have been when he called county staff downstairs from trying to sell bonds to confirm for him that there was cash left over from not buying land for HS8, and got into an argument with Ben Mays on what constitutes "cash".

Mr. Mays told him politely but firmly that state lottery money is carried as a grant from the state and not carried as cash, and that there WAS NO CASH.

Burton chose to disagree with his "interpretation".

I also enjoyed Ohnheiser saying that MS5 was not the answer to middle school problems (of course not, because those kids need to be in Stone Hill to jigger the cohort numbers for HS6 from below), and that no individual school board member could speak for the board as a body, and then proceeded to do that very thing for some time, until even Burton told him "you've made that point already".

(BTW, I mean hilarious in the black humor/Kill Bill/Fargo kind of way.)

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 12:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A review of message contents posted here, as well as related blogs, provides one with a unique view of the truly self aggrandizing “wants” of our fellow Loudoun residents including the omnipresent “me/mine first,” veiled charges of racism, elitism, corruption, etc. None of this should surprise anyone. Almost every commentator has the self asserted ability to know what is best not only for their immediate neighborhood but for the county as a whole. Still, the vast majority simply are too consumed with anger over the apparent wrong being committed to understand the complexity of the system and its multiple moving parts. Instead, these ignorant (e.g., uninformed) bloggers attempt to enlist cries of “support plan XYZ or ZYX” with the only knowledge of said plan coming from a line of numbers and colors on a map. Obviously, an attempt to understand properly, a county-wide issue is irrelevant especially when blinders prevent many from seeing beyond their own bus-stop. Instead, we find numerous posts decrying alleged fiscal irresponsibility of bussing a very small number of children a couple of miles. It is interesting however, that none of these posts attempt to consider that such perceived “fiscal irresponsibility” might in fact represent the optimal fiscal solution given the multi-cohort model being used. Instead, we are given a glimpse of the true communal contribution offered by many of the me-first generation as they scream their outrage in the largest fonts and in only the most prominent blogs. Such wonderful examples of civic members!
They are too quick to rely on the age-old strategy of misdirection. They cry “It is Lansdowne’s fault because their rich” “it is John Smiths fault because he’s corrupt” “it is Leesburg’s fault because…” As parents, how many of you would accept such sophomoric claims from your children when they explain their predicaments… “Honest Mom, teacher Smith hates my guts….” “Really Dad, my guidance counselor is an elitist and does not want to do anything to help people who live on our street…” However, such cries of injustice serve their role in allowing many of the uninformed masses to blindly jump on bandwagons which are little more than figments of a delusional imagination (I point to the posts about an equine school and the fury such a disingenuous claim draws.) .
In my humble opinion that the system is not perfect however it is being used in an optimal way. It considers a geographic area larger than the audio limit of a 30-40 year-olds temper tantrum (i.e., two suburban blocks). Additionally, the fence-building rhetoric such as Ashburn v. Leesburg is ridiculous and self serving. If bloggers’ true beliefs support such rhetoric then please stay put and exists in the microcosms that exist within your neighborhoods and allow the rest of us in Loudoun to enjoy the gifts we have around us.

Posted by bobandted (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 1:15 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bobandted, I must take exception to one of your points. I and at least a few other posters here are BABY BOOMERS. Please DO NOT put US in the "me first" generation!!

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 3:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bobandted, you're right, we do have a lot of nice things here.

The problem is an inequitable distribution of their enjoyment, and an inequitable distribution of both the financial and intangible costs of some of those nice things.

If it makes you feel better to dismiss something of which you quite apparently know very little, as in the use of an unapproved and unfunded program proposal to attempt to justify keeping seats unutilized at a new school (thus artificially inflating capacity issues), then go right ahead.

However, I would suggest you watch the webcast of the finance committee meeting.

The equine studies program was mentioned, after which the school board clarified that the program had not yet been adopted and was not funded.

In addition, the school board will be providing results of their task force on the proposed Monroe programs (of which it has yet to be determined whether it will include equine studies as part of a veterinary program) that leads them to conclude that the center should not be dispersed.

The information that has been disseminated on this by at least one board member refers to this in such careful language it could easily lead one to believe that it is already slated to happen.

Not only is that not true until it becomes more than a proposal, it is the school board's constitutional authority to determine that, and not the board of supervisors'

They can only determine whether or not to give them enough money to fund it.

So we get back to the issue of whether or not, in a year when the board specifically directed staff and the superintendent to bring in a budget that included NO capital projects to be funded this coming fiscal year, how it can be justified to deliberately leave seats open (at about 13K a seat, 200 seats is 2.6M.) in a school already underway, and attempt to advance another (partially through the artificial numbers created by empty seats) and place it on the ballot this fall.

Yes, it is a complex issue.

You might benefit from watching that finance committee webcast.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 5:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

WOW bobandted, you sure do talk purty!
.
And isn't is so nice of you to label many of your Loudoun neighbors based on a view posts.

Posted by t8erman (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 5:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

check this out:

http://loudoun.granicus.com/MediaPlayer....

Posted by carl2t (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 8 p.m. (Suggest removal)

TO: bobandted..Is It Lonely Up There On Your Pedestal?

Posted by ed (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 8:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The proposed fast tracking (read non public vote) of HS-6 by Lori Waters is fiscal studity.The $200 million dollar + "$X" question (more on that math later) is why people in Lansdowne do not want their HS students to attend under attended Tuscarora High School in Leesburg. Please take a look at plans 564 or 592 there is a solution.

The math
$100 million to build the school
"$X" = Cost of salaries to staff HS-6
$100 million increase in bond interest once we lose our AAA rating. Watch the the last few minutes of the video on the link of a March 4th BOS/School Board meeting
http://lcps.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php... #4

If you were mad because you thought we could save $25 million by building HS-6 now .. you should now be irate or worse at the thought of spending $100 million on increased bond interest rates HS-6 would cause on all Loudoun County debt.

This debt will increase our already high taxes in Loudoun County.

Please email Lori Waters, the media and the BOS and school board. HS-6 is a $200 million fiscal mistake Loudoun County cannot afford.

Posted by rlmccoy45 (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 9:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I thank you for the apparent attempt to hold up your ends of this argument. Unfortunately, it is clear that some “bloggers” will not allow themselves to see beyond the non sequiturs they are so apt to hide behind nor will they run the risk of having to consider a well constructed alternative viewpoint. I have neither the time nor inclination to engage in protracted arguments addressing numerous mute points with individuals whose points of contention are pathetically lost in wandering streams of consciousness apropos of nothing. Instead I will simply offer the following:

BarbaraMunsey - the point about the equine education was nothing more than an example as to how conjecture and supposition within the blogs have the ability to enrage without reason. I could care less about the implications of an equine education program. I am more concerned that uninformed individuals tend to take the written word, regardless of where or by whom it was written, as fact. These individuals cannot discern opinion from fact and the confusion is a liability the rest of us cannot afford. As to your economics I would ask simply if you consider the supposed “$13,000 a seat” incremental or fixed. Is it your contention that this money is spent regardless of the presence of a student (i.e., fixed) or is it spent only if a child fill the seat (incremental). In either instance your economic presumptions are laughable and well below any student that would be impacted by these boundaries. Additionally, as you will note in my initial post, the implications of the cohort modeling used requires numerous assumptions none of which are understood and/or address by you. As such, you simply fail to offer anything more that an apparent ability to misinterpret the facts.

As to Ed’s comment I only can ask that you accept my apologies for the abundant use of multisyllabic words. If they confuse you I am sorry. And to answer you question as to my pedestal I would say that I am no lonelier than your impressive intellegence makes you.

Good luck with your tasks - I wish you all that you deserve.

Posted by bobandted (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bob, recall that I said this:
"Well, I've finally heard from more than one place something I'm having a very hard time believing."

I based it on this:
"Furthermore, there is a way to use the available seats in Leesburg in the short term. The schools are desiring a new Monroe Technology Academy. Some of the programs would make sense to place in Leesburg. For instance, the veterinary program, which incluses equine studies, could be placed at Tuscarora, which is adjacent to the Virginia Tech Equine Center. Smaller mobile programs can be worked in these schools. Currently Monroe is slated for $95 million for 500 seats in FY11. We could save money by doing the model a bit differently.
> Thanks,
> Lori
>
> ----------------------------
> Lori L. Waters
> Loudoun County Board of Supervisors
> Broad Run District
> (703) 771-5088
> lori.waters@loudoun.gov"

Note "the veterinary program, which includes equine studies". Nowhere does it say that this is only a proposed program.

So maybe your issue on that is not with me?

In addition, using lots of multisyllabic words and a major attitude doesn't mean your statements contain any of the facts you deride in others' discussions.

Are you capable of actually discussing the role of the cohort survival formula in LCPS Planning and Legislative Services' projection process, or only of claiming that others don't?

You are a diversion, and that's about it.

Have a nice day now.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:46 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oops, sorry, bob: yes, there are certain costs associated with seats actually being used.

The discussion here is revolving around adding 1800 seats prematurely when there are seats already in process with no plans to use them in the forseeable future.

What is the cost of an 1800 seat school divided by 1800 kids?

By 1600 kids?

By 1400?

By 1200?

Now add another 1800 seat school.

Sorry, sometimes I just forget that we have so many nice things in Loudoun, it just doesn't MATTER what we do, because we're just blessed!

Do you have the cost per seat by school memorized?

I'm sure you do!

Or at least, that you can say you do.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 18, 2009 at 10:53 p.m. (Suggest removal)

bobandted,
the comment I made about being a baby boomer and that was my only disagreement with your post was extreme sarcasm. I actually do not wish to waste my precious time putting together a rebuttal to your highly condescending and presumptuous post. Instead, I have spent my time expressing my viewpoints where it counts the most - to the BoS and the School Board.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 7:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Also, just a small suggestion. When putting down the intelligence of people you have never even met, you may want to spell the word "intelligence" correctly. It's just a bit more effective, unless you are going for comic relief.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 7:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

HS-6 $200 Million Mistake - unfunded, unvoted upon, unneeded
Lori Waters Statement -³You see on the High School numbers that we¹ve got a capacity problem, even with Tuscarora being built and open in 2010.²
Research Finding - Capacity is 8087 student seats for the five high schools in Supervisor Waters¹ analysis (Briar Woods, Heritage, LoudounCounty, Stone Bridge, and Tuscarora). Enrollment numbers for 2010/11 are projected at 6984. We don¹t have a capacity problem; we have a surplus of 1103 seats when Tuscarora opens.
Lori Waters Statement -³It is apparent to me that we need HS-6 sooner than 2014 to open. There will be no less than 1000 kids north of the Greenway that are gonna (SIC) have to be put somewhere.²
Research Finding -This statement is false. If either citizen input plan 564 (attached) or plan 592 are adopted, in 2012/13, Stone Bridge HS is only 36 kids over capacity. Statistically the school would be at capacity

Posted by rlmccoy45 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 8:18 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Lori Waters Statement
For HS-6 - ³It doesn¹t need a legislative land-use application. So, I encourage you to give it some thought on moving it up. In this kind of bid environment Š that school could come in at a really affordable price compared to waiting 2 or 3 years and spending $106 million dollars on it²
Research Finding - That¹s fiscal irresponsibility. Those who want HS 6 say if we build the school now we will save $25 million ... but how? Loudoun County will have to staff the unneeded HS 6 with teachers and support staff ... this comes at a time when Loudoun County can't fully staff the schools we have today and the school budget is not growing and more staffing cuts are being proposed.
Lori Waters Statement -³I¹ve reviewed what the county put in as potential boundary changes for the High Schools you are looking to make changes in. Every one of them (the plans) still has Stone Bridge overcrowded by 2012. So I was thinking about moving HS-6 up ­ you have a little more flexibility in your decision making and you don¹t churn students from one school and 2 years later move them out due to overcrowding. So I have talked to a couple of you about moving it up.²
Research Finding - In 2012, both plans endorsed by surrounding communities (plan 564 & 592) have
Stonebridge High School only 36 students over capacity in 2012. These plans are also permanent solutions for Ashburn Farm, Belmont Country Club, and Lansdowne. This is not a 2 year solution ­ kids don¹t have to move again, communities are kept together, and taxpayers don¹t have HS-6 prematurely added to our already high tax burden.HS-6 is not needed until at least the fall of 2014 and perhaps later. We have plenty of existing capacity within our existing facilities once Tuscarora HS opens in the fall of 2010 to relieve current and anticipated overcrowding at Stone Bridge HS. Furthermore, with the planned opening of WoodgroveHigh School and HS-7 shortly thereafter, our county already will be faced with the increased operational costs of three more high schools coming on line. When we are currently facing budget shortfalls and project worse ones in the year ahead, it is irresponsible to knowingly exacerbate the problem by opening a fourth high school (HS 6) before it is needed.
WE CANNOT AFFORD HS-6 $200 Million cost it will cost us all higher taxes

Posted by rlmccoy45 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 8:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)

She sure is something, isn't she? Why should the taxpayers agree to spend money we don't have to build a school we don't need just because one person, who happens to have some power in this county, wants it? This is special interest and personal vendetta at its finest. And we're all going to pay the price. My taxes aren't going down this year even though my property assessment did. Are yours?

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 9:16 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Supervisor Burton stated at yesterdays finance meeting that it would be no problem whatsoever to scrape together a mere $3.1 million for A&E for HS6. If we have $3.1 million dollars laying around (as Supervisor Burton says we do), why can't we use that to save jobs in this county, prevent a county program from closing or for a pay increase for our county employees? I agree with Barbara- "This is so ridiculous it would be laughable if it weren't so bloody infuriating."

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

rlmccoy, the only reference I have found to a $25-30M saving is a qualified statement in this article:

http://leesburg2day.com/articles/2009/02...

"Brown said the county was monitoring the construction prices and bid environment and the FY11 CIP would likely "radically change the price on schools" almost by $25 to $30 million.

"Staff is going to be tracking that to see if that holds up," he said."

The whole article is worth reading, because the above remark is in response to Supervisor Waters' questions on acceleration of HS6.

The statement is not definite by any means.

bobandted may have one piece of a point (but has projected it quite differently in the accusations against others--too bad in the long put-downs there wasn't time to explain reality to us cretins): if this is all there is, it has been repeated as a talking point so much it has become "fact" for some.

You go, Momof2! I'm kind of hoping bob keeps milking the multisyllabic route, so I can politely ask him to go back to the one-syllable words for just a minute please and explain slowly to me the difference between "mute" and a "moot point".

qaz, I believe the $3M "cash" was addressed by Mr. Mays statement that lottery funds that WERE to be applied to HS8 were not carried as cash on the books, and that there WAS no cash.

Some money may NOT be fungible (like TOT funds).

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 10:44 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Please remember we all are a community and if possible we should embrace the words one of our generations more prolific writers, A. Phoules:

“This month’s showers fall on the wearer of a motley”

Abril Phoules, 1976

Posted by bobandted (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Your right the $25-30M saving can only be found in the link mentioned but it keeps coming up in speeches from supporters of fast tracking HS-6 before the BOS and school board.
The potentail $25 million savings is completely erased by the $100 Million interest rate increase on all Loundoun County debt plus staffing for unneeded HS-6.
Why can't supporters of HS-6 see the large financial impact ... Loudoun County cannot afford HS-6?
HS-6 needs to be put to a vote by all the people who will have to pay for HS-6 ... not fast tracked by a politician.

Posted by rlmccoy45 (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 11:36 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I would venture that the March 18 staff recommendation did not include an acceleration or we'd have been hearing about that endlessly.

Of course, like the school board, staff may just be acting on the board of supervisors previous (and as yet unrescinded) direction to bring in a budget with no capital expenditures this year.

bobandted, have you thought of checking with andcarolandalice before some of your posts? Where are they on all of this?

April fool to you too, chum.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ahh BarbaraMunsey-
I tip my cockscomb to you...and you picked up the 70s movie reference... on top of your game all the way around.

good luck

Posted by bobandted (anonymous) on March 19, 2009 at 12:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)