Curious: why is a COPN not needed for this facility?

Posted by ric.james (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 11:47 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Great news for Loudoun!

Posted by LoudounModerate (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at noon (Suggest removal)

The initial healthplex construction does not require a COPN. The 80-bed hospital does, but until the BRMC COPN expires (next month?), there probably isn't much point in discussing beds.

This is on land zoned for a hospital, so that's a plus.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 12:31 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Great news and long due. Hopefully Rt. 50 extension will be extended to GumSrping Road

Posted by vikram_paul (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 1:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Good news.....I hope it happens. To ensure it, the county should approve no expansion of Lansdowne until ALL of Inova's previous promises are kept....a full service hospital on Rte 50 and healthplexes in Middleburg, Purcellville, and Lovetsville.

Posted by shevco (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 1:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hurray, an INOVA monopoly on hospital care in LoCo. That will drive costs down and service up!

Posted by whlinder1 (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 2:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This is welcome news! I am quite happy to hear this. I'm not going to complain that INOVA is willing to do this - clearly HCA was only interested in the Broadlands property, probably because of its proximity to the Greenway and Reston Hosptial.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 2:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The FTC might not be so happy. They already identified Inova having a monopoly on healthcaer in this area, and very recently slapped them on the wrist for attempting to merge with Prince William Hospital. What will be the FTC's evaluation when they see Inova attempting to open yet *another* hospital, when they already have close to 70% of hospital beds in Northern VA? Since the FTC is mandated to look after the welfare of the consumer, we must depend on them to determine whether compeition in healthcare is good, or bad, for the consumer.

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 3:04 p.m. (Suggest removal)

By the way, with regard to land use, the Loudoun County Planning Commission recommended that the Broadlands Hospital be approved for its centrally located site in Loudoun County. HCA met the requirements for a special exception.

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 3:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"Since the FTC is mandated to look after the welfare of the consumer"

Question: what will the FTC do for me and my family if one of us has a life threatening emergency during rush hour?

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 3:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank you for the response, BarbaraMunsey, but I read all that in the post by Erica. The question is why doesn't the healthplex need a COPN?

Posted by ric.james (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 3:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Oh well... good to see the INOVA monopoly thrives in LoCo. Wonder how much they contributed to the commissioners who voted against HCA. Hmmm.....80 beds versus 160 or so HCA was building..... let's not cut into INOVA LoCo bed fill. Wonder how much Taxpayer money we'll have to write off for the non-payers on this one when it gets up and going.

Posted by herb.jordan (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 3:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

you're welcome ric. I believe it's two separate issues: existing approved services at Avonlea, which will be part of the healthplex, and the letter of intent for the new COPN for beds at 50 and 659. In addition, some of the mentioned healthplex inclusions are not regulated by the state.

There are stories on leesburg2day and times mirror now, which go into more detail.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 4:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Inova should not be allowed to build a second hospital in this county. That would mean consumers would have zero choices in the county of Loudoun, other than Inova. Competition is necessary in order for the consumer to receive the highest level of service and care.

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 5:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I am a concerned parent and citizen. I do not have time to find out all the background information for all of this. However, those of you who are so against INOVA building a hospital on RT 50, does that mean we have to wait until another company shows up? How long will that take to happen? It is clear that HCA was willing to build only at the Broadlands location. They are unwilling to compromise here in Loudoun. So what are we to do? Go with no additional healthcare?

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 6:42 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A follow up to my last comment - all these agencies are suppossed to be regulating in the best interest of the public. Barring services in an underserved area just doesn't seem to accomplish that goal.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 16, 2009 at 7 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How convenient. Defeat HCA's proposal and then allow Inova to build another hospital. The losers are Loudoun County residents who have no choice. I am just glad that I live close enough to go to Reston and I have a choice.

Posted by livingloco (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 7:10 a.m. (Suggest removal)

If we didn't need the HCA hospital, why do we need this one?

Posted by MikeL4 (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 8:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Just curious, since when is a letter of intent part of the COPN process? This smells again like the bully playing politics. False hopes people. Listen to shevco's comment, it's very constructive.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 10:11 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A letter of intent is not necessary. It's all part of Inova pulling the wool over people's eyes. The problem is, the public at large is not familiar with the procedures involving COPN's etc, and Inova knows it. By the time the people see that no hospital is going to be built on Route 50 (or anywhere in Loudoun County), the opportunity for BMRC will be long gone. That will make a few nimbys happy, but does nothing for raising the level of health care, or giving county residents a CHOICE in which type of hospital they go to. Once again, the people at large are screwed.

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 11:26 a.m. (Suggest removal)

mikel4, HCA had an offer from Inova to purchase their zoned land at market price.

Apparently before they decided to move their existing-and-soon-to-expire-COPN to Fairfax, it would have completely invalidated the COPn to move it within Loudoun.

When they announced their plan to double Reston, I would guess Inova interpreted that as vacating their right of first refusal, and filed their letter of intent.

Glenn, a letter of intent is part of the process as I understand it.

It's like getting a place in line.

yocom, the only way we can assure no choice of access in Loudoun is to put the small satellite in Broadlands, and make Reston the new behemoth that cancels any additional service in this part of the planning area for the future.

We'll see what happens today with Miller's attempt at reconsideration.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 12:17 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This BOS is not going to do anything but continue with the status quo. They have, by their actions, effectively squashed any new hospital being built in Louduon for a long time to come. HCA, as a business, was entitled to select a location that it felt had the best chance of being profitable. It chose Ashburn because this region of the county is and will continue to be the most highly populated. Under the guise of land use issues, Inova entered into the mix, stirring up people wherever possible, using negative advertising and making false claims. The worst thing Inova did was threaten the BOS that it would remove or withdraw healthcare services from various parts of the county. That's why Inova is referred to as being a bully. It has 67% of hospital beds in Northern VA, but it is greedy, and does not want any competition. The net result of the BOS's decision to deny BRMC is a win for the nimbys and Inova, a loss for anyone else who believes in having a choice in healthcare. Bottom line, no new hospital will be coming to Loudoun any time soon...alas

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 1:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Yocomclan! Right on! (fist raised in defiance!)

Posted by herb.jordan (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 1:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, I don't think so. The LOI is fabricated. According to the VA COPN website, there is no reference to a required or optional LOI. There is no reference to "a place in line" either.
.
It's nothing but a theatrical stunt. Inova is getting very good at this stuff.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 1:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi!

Maravetz, you may want to check your facts by reviewing the actual rules & regulations. I suggest you start with Virginia Medical Care Facilities Certificate of Public Need Rules and Regulations, which you can find here: http://www.vdh.state.va.us/OLC/Laws/docu...

I found it in about two minutes using Google. It clearly lays out where the Letter of Intent fits within the overall process. You can find it under Section 12VAC5-220-180, "Application forms."

Posted by Pablo01 (anonymous) on February 17, 2009 at 8:14 p.m. (Suggest removal)

A COPN is not needed yet because it is only used for hospital beds. An ER, phsyician offices, and other outpatient services don't require a COPN because they are not inpatient beds and don't have to meet the same requirements.

Posted by Kitten615 (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 1:30 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Question: what will the FTC do for me and my family if one of us has a life threatening emergency during rush hour?" Answer:When left unregulated and lacking competition, INOVA sets the current insurance rates for procedures. The crash at the end of that is when YOUR insurance carrier decides that INOVA procedures are too high and drops INOVA from YOUR network. Any other questions?

Posted by honchonumberone (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 9:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"They are unwilling to compromise here in Loudoun." Again, you really do not pay attention. HCA went to incredible pains to mitigate the impact. The location could not ever have been more supreme. It was surrounded by a 4 lane on one side, the "Greenway"on another, and backed up to the School ADMIN building on another....It had 600 feet (that's roughly two football fields)with heavy buffers between it and the BACKS OF closest houses.
They even went to pains to change the plan a couple of times to address neighboring concerns.It won't get any better than BRMC, people. No COPN means no hospital on 50.

Posted by honchonumberone (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 9:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I do pay attention and I know that the board of supervisors voted against this location due to zoning issues. If HCA truly wanted to build here in Loudoun, they would have compromised and found a suitable location. That is my opinion and I do not need validation from you, honcho.

It also appears to me that the compromises BRMC did make compromised the range of services offered at the facility.

I still have many questions and do not expect that any of them will be appropriately answered by you.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 9:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

momof2, Lisa Freeman has posted here before (under her own name) with the website http://rt50hospitalnow.org/ that I worked with her on. (Most of it is hers--she has been very devoted to this issue from the beginning)

She is a formidable and meticulous researcher, and the site has a lot of information on it.

It would be a good place for background, if you're interested.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 9:59 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks, Barbara.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 10:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You're welcome, Momof2. Hope it helps. There's a contact option too, so if you have more questions you can write to Lisa via the site.

Dean, no COPN YET means no hospital on 50 TODAY.

Are you going to make this your next secret mission?

Kill a hospital on 50 (or anywhere else) because it didn't go your (and your political allies) way?

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 10:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, sadly, I am afraid that is on the horizon. That is my gut feeling based on the many, many articles and comments I have "paid attention to". In the interest of ensuring competition, healthcare services in Loudoun may be severely limited in the next 10-20 years because HCA ignored local land use requirements. That is the bottom line I believe I am hearing from the HCA supporters/BoS bashers.

I signed up for the email list on the rt50 hospital website.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 11:32 a.m. (Suggest removal)

momof2 - you are ACTUALLY going to the blame the future lack of competition on HCA? HCA who wanted to build in Loudoun? HCA who as a for-profit company chose the location best suited for them AND the county as a whole?

Posted by t8erman (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 2:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Might as well blame every other health care company in the world since they didn't offer to build in Loudoun. You people are funny.

Posted by mazman128 (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 4:40 p.m. (Suggest removal)

t8 and maz, is that what Momof2 is saying?

It sounds more to me like she is afraid that the hardcores who wanted that one site only may turn their efforts into making sure their dog stays in the manger at Reston only.

She can correct us all on what she means--she had no trouble setting the honcho straight.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 4:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara,
Yes, you are correct in your understanding of my statement. Thanks for your support.

Posted by momof2 (anonymous) on February 18, 2009 at 5:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thank YOU.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 19, 2009 at 8:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

A little analogy for everyone....

Imagine Loudoun had only one Costco, and thus is vastly underserved. BJ's decides to seek approval to build a store in Loudoun in proximity to Costco. Costco spends millions of dollars to fight competition coming into Loudoun; "if this get approved, we are doomed, we will have to cut back services". BJ's fights back, even agreeing to not seek the gas station which is an important feature of any modern warehouse club store.

Some on the Loudoun BOS who like to shop at Costco, but have never been to a BJ's, ultimately vote to disapprove BJ's application. They are supported by citizens who are given funding and special discounts at Costco during the period the application was under review.

After BJ's is denied the right to compete with Costco, Costco announces they hope to build another store in Loudoun thus "creating choice and competition." BJ's decides to invest millions in an adjacent country instead.

Some in the blogophere declare this a victory?

Posted by tvconway (anonymous) on February 19, 2009 at 9:33 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Until people can look at this situation factually and realistically, they cannot and will not comprehend that Loudoun just lost its chance, thanks to its own Board of Supervisors, to have a new hospital. That is the long of it, the short of it, and the beginning of it and the end. To blame HCA for the BOS's own decision is - well, it's nothing short of ridiculous.

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 20, 2009 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

tvconway, on the face of it that's a silly analogy, because the kind of zoning that allows stores like that is distributed fairly well throughout the county.

Hospitals are not costcos.

Very funny analogy coming from you especially, since your wife and Sup. Miller have succeeded in getting extra regs attached to any big box application.

If anyone tried to bring either of your stores to Route 50, your wife and the Imperial regular protesters would be first in line to get rid of it.

This is over now, and unless you and yocom plan to turn your complaints into protests against any hospital on route 50, I'm curious what purpose your comments serve?

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 20, 2009 at 4:39 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, Barbara,what purpose do your comments serve?

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 20, 2009 at 7:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

None, really, yocom.

I just have a hard time ignoring the red flag of politicized misinformation endlessly repeated by some.

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 20, 2009 at 10:26 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Coming from a psuedo-politician yourself. ;-)

Posted by t8erman (anonymous) on February 21, 2009 at 11:51 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, I consider it my civic duty to make sure the public understands exactly what has been lost as a result of, not only this BOS's refusual to allow the new hospital to be built, but also, its lack of responsibility to the citizens of this county by willfully ignoring the FTC. I've never encountered such a smug, self serving bunch of "leaders," who obviously don't give a damn about the people they are supposed to be "serving." Welcome to Loudoun County.

Posted by Yocomclan (anonymous) on February 22, 2009 at 1:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Well, if this is your civic duty, have at it.

Check the poll results, though; the largest contingent voting has selected "don't care".

Lots of people to educate, eh?

Posted by BarbaraMunsey (anonymous) on February 22, 2009 at 6:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Of course "don't care" is going to be the largest block. The decision has been made and now, people don't care!

Posted by t8erman (anonymous) on February 23, 2009 at 11:49 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I just have a hard time ignoring the red flag of politicized misinformation endlessly repeated by some.--

Posted by BarbaraMunsey.

I busted a gut myself when I saw that.
Babs, I'm not going to take a hospital away from Rt 50...The failure to secure a COPN is going to do that.

Posted by honchonumberone (anonymous) on February 28, 2009 at 6 p.m. (Suggest removal)