Governor Kaine has signed SB 776, a bill that permits Commonwealth
Attorneys and their deputies, with NO requirement for any firearms
training, to carry a concealed handgun into a restaurant that serves
alcohol AND DRINK while they're at it!!!

Unbelievably, just last week Kaine vetoed SB 476, which would have
allowed concealed handgun permit holders, all of whom have firearms
training, to carry a concealed handgun in such a restaurant as long as
the permit holder did NOT drink. And under SB 476 CHP holders would
have had to notify the restaurant that they were carrying concealed if
the management wanted them to do so!

But rather than having the decency to just let SB 476 become law
without his signature, Kaine vetoed it.

In doing so, Kaine showed he doesn't have the political wisdom of his
predecessor, Mark Warner. Between Kaine and Dick "Banjo" Saslaw, the
Virginia Democratic Party now has a HUGE black eye with gun owners in
an important election year.

The Governor clearly believes in a double standard: one for anyone
who works for the government, no matter how unqualified, and one for
"lowly" citizens, like you and I.

The Governor's mantra about "guns and alcohol not mixing" is just so
much BS and the Governor isn't even trying to hide that fact. Kaine's
signature on SB 776 says it all.

Vetoing SB 476 and signing SB 776 shows that Kaine believes that
government employees can mix guns and alcohol without a problem.

But this is also about sour grapes.

The Governor put a lot of his eggs, and his credibility, in one basket
this year - getting the private-gun-sale-registration-scheme
(sometimes erroneously referred to as the "gun show loophole") bill
passed. The Governor's bill, which was carried by Senator Marsh, and
the Governor's ego both got crushed by a bipartisan vote in the
Democratic-controlled Senate.

Kaine could have avoided that embarrassment if he had simply paid
attention to what happened to Jeannemarie Devolites-Davis when she,
too, put her political eggs in the gun-control basket.

The Governor keeps forgetting that most of his constituency is no
longer Richmond's inner city, as it was when he was Richmond's Mayor.
The rest of Virginia, including Northern Virginia, isn't buying into
using gun control as a political hobbyhorse on the back of the
Virginia Tech tragedy.

Governor Kaine rode that hobbyhorse right into a brick wall, got up
off the ground, and ran for his veto pen out of spite.

Posted by edsorder (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 1:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Unfortunately for Mr Herring, he continues to play upon the standard liberal plank of gun control. The legislation in question restricted armed CHP holders from consuming alcohol in bars. Knowing the high level of integrity and law-abiding nature of CHP holders, it's hard to believe one would risk losing the privilege of carrying concealed over a single beer.

In addition, and in typical hypocritical fashion, Mr Herring forgets that open carry is permitted without a permit into any ABC-ON establishment with few limits on the consumption of alcohol. I have yet to hear of an incident involving an open carrying person using their lawfully carried firearm in a manner that violates the law in a bar/restaurant. If anyone does know of an incident involving the unlawful activities of a person in the above said manner, please let us know.

If anything, a CHP permit holder is vetted via state and national criminal background checks, yet an open carrying person is not. According to Mr. Herring's vote and comments, he doesn't trust us concealed carriers.

Posted by rahaha (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 3:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Guns don't kill people, people kill people... I wonder how many crimes could be prevented or minimized if there were law abiding, armed CHP holders around when these crimes are being committed. I guess an alcohol serving establishment may be a good choice of place to be breaking the law-no threat of any armed CHP holders there.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 4:35 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The "gun control" canard is getting tired. Opposing carrying concealed weapons into bars is not "gun control."

Gun control is trying to ban handguns and other restrictions on ownership. This is not a restriction on ownership, it's a restriction on behavior. It's a public safety issue. No one is calling DUI laws "alcohol control," even though they amount to the same thing - a restriction on certain behaviors by individuals otherwise exercising their rights and freedoms.

Posted by Paradox13VA (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 4:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Looks like due to Kaine's veto, the amount of open carry in restaurants will increase greatly - there's nothing wrong with open carry, but govt. should not require it. See more at OpenCarry dot org.

Posted by majstoll (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 4:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Apparently Gov. Kaine doesn't understand that the "Bar exam" doesn't mean that people can go to bars. You see, he doesn't have any problem with Commonwealth attorneys carrying concealed weapons in restaurants that serve alcohol. Nor does SB 776 restrict them from drinking. Gov. Kaine supported that one.

I wonder if he can spell "hypocrite".

Posted by tbailsh (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 6:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Paradox13VA,
I've got some bad news for you. Restricting carry of firearms IS gun control. As far as 'It's a public safety issue', you are correct. The public is less safe if I am unable to carry a firearm. As far as DUI laws being 'alcohol control', that is an irrelevant and meaningless statement. There is no right to consume alcohol, whereas there is a righ to bear arms.

Posted by xcop (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 7:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

By the way, did anyone notice the first sentence of the second paragraph? Am I the only one who is bothered by the liberal media (no offense Ms. Garman, but you do work for the Washington Post) being able to get information on who has concealed firearm permits? It kind of makes me want to use an alias, like Heywood Jablome.

Posted by xcop (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 7:23 p.m. (Suggest removal)

People should also read THIS article about Erica..

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...

Ed

Posted by edsorder (anonymous) on March 13, 2008 at 9:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I went with Erica to that gun safety course for women taught by the NRA. It was informative and we had a BLAST! Don't assume you know someone's stance by reading an article. I'm not saying she supports or opposes gun control either way, obviously I'm not her and I can't speak for her, but I just think it's funny that people think they can read something and KNOW that someone is being slanted. Erica is trying to present both sides. That's her job, and I think she does it well.

Posted by chelsivia (anonymous) on March 14, 2008 at 10:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

quote chelsivia "Don't assume you know someone's stance by reading an article."
- -
I'm not.. I was just pointing to the article.. I held a similar gun class for Cascades residents with the same instructor! Look here: http://cascadesva.us/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph...

Posted by edsorder (anonymous) on March 14, 2008 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

edsorder...I wasn't talking about you...:-) I was glad you posted her other article.

Posted by chelsivia (anonymous) on March 14, 2008 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I thought it was a good article. I would have preferred you include the facts about SB 776 as mentioned earlier to give a complete understanding of the hypocrisy of some of our elected officials. Here are the Senators that voted to allow guns and alcohol to mix as long as it was done by government employees who have no experience with firearms: Barker, Blevins, Colgan, Herring, Howell, Locke, Lucas, Marsh, McEachin, John Miller, Yvonne Miller, Norment, Northam, Puckett, Puller, Saslaw, Ticer, Whipple.

Also, it was interesting to see your editor further show the papers bias with the rename of the article: "Concealed Guns: The Fad You Might Not Have Noticed." No, protecting yourself and loved ones is not a FAD, at least for those who truly care about others.

Posted by mikesays_hi (anonymous) on March 16, 2008 at 10:46 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I object to the characterization that concealed handgun permit (CHP) holders are participating in some sort of “fad” as if CHPs were pet rocks or thousand-dollar Hannah Montana tickets. Have you ever put any thought into why people carry concealed handguns? An examination of the local crime statistics will tell you that it is not a “fad” but an exercise of a Commonwealth and Constitutional right that some, including our Governor, are attempting to limit.

I also object to the characterization of these CHP holders as “packing heat.” Such terminology is degrading and an insult to CHP holders who are trained and experienced enough to be permitted by the Commonwealth to carry a concealed firearm. It amounts to name-calling.

You also skew what facts there are in your column. While it is true that SB 476 would have allowed CHP holders to carry concealed into Virginia restaurants that serve alcohol, what you fail to show is that current law allows them to carry their sidearm openly in Virginia restaurants already. It also allows them to consume alcoholic beverages, while SB 476 would have precluded drinking. You also fail to mention that SB 476 was passed by wide margins in the Virginia House and Senate, but then vetoed by the Governor. (This same governor then signed into law a bill that would allow untrained off-duty Virginia prosecutors to carry concealed weapons all over Virginia, and enter bars and restaurants, and drink alcohol, without the necessity of a CHP.)

I am happy to have a legislator in Virginia like Senator Jill Vogel who sees the necessity of correcting and clarifying an illogical oversight in the current law and standing to support SB 476 and voicing the will of her constituents. It is a shame that Mark Herring voted against the legislation without even understanding the issue. The issue is not about carrying a concealed weapon into “bars”. In Loudoun we really don’t have neighborhood bars in the same sense that, say, Baltimore does. The issue is about CHP holders, who hold permits issued by the Commonwealth based on training, experience and a background check, being able to walk into a Virginia restaurant and have a quiet meal with their families without exposing their handgun.

It is a shame that the Governor neither understand the crux of the issue nor the will of the people of the Commonwealth. But it is an issue that a Washington Post columnist should be familiar with before writing on the topic.

Posted by bluedog1 (anonymous) on March 16, 2008 at 11:03 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I got on to the Governor's web page and e-mailed him regarding his decisions, but amazingly enough, I haven't gotten a reply. Go figure.

Posted by xcop (anonymous) on March 17, 2008 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

This came out in a news letter I get. I know the author won't mind me reprinting it here. I've left out their name on purpose. I have also had to post this in "parts" to meet the 3000 character resriction.

Applying A Gun-Control Argument To Alcohol

As both a gun-rights activist and a concerned citizen, I have watched
with great interest the drama that has been created by Virginia Gov.
Tim Kaine's veto of Senate Bill 476.

This bill would have allowed concealed-carry permit holders to carry
firearms into restaurants that serve alcohol so long as they refrained
from drinking.

The Virginia Hospitality and Travel Association, which represents
Virginia's restaurant industry, was vociferous in its opposition to
this bill. It repeatedly pointed out the dangers of alcohol and how it
feared that adding guns to the mix could exacerbate these dangers. I
am surprised, but encouraged, to see that Virginia's restaurant owners
clearly understand the threat posed by the easy availability of
alcohol in restaurants.

EVEN THOSE who are prohibited by law from purchasing alcohol (minors)
are easily able to procure it by simply having an older friend order
it for them in what I am told is called a "straw purchase."

Consumption of alcohol is a threat that costs hundreds of innocent
lives every year in Virginia, many of them children. We must stop
giving in to the alcohol lobby and enact reasonable restrictions on
the sale of alcohol for outside the home consumption! As you are no
doubt aware, Virginia does not have "bars" in the traditional sense of
the word. They have restaurants that are also licensed to serve
alcohol. Although, there are establishments which are truly "bars"
that are very thinly disguised as restaurants. This circumvention of
the law is known as the deadly "restaurant loophole."

Posted by redleg1 (anonymous) on March 17, 2008 at 8:24 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Part 2

In data released by the National Highway Traffic Safety
Administration, a full 36 percent of all traffic crashes in Fairfax
County were alcohol-related. And in Richmond, this number climbs to a
whopping 55 percent. And yet, at restaurants all over the state, with
parking lots full of automatic assault weapons (also known as cars),
waiters and waitresses are allowed to serve alcohol to the operators
of these vehicles while they are in possession of "concealed car
keys."

NOW, I am not suggesting twe ban alcohol. I support the sporting use
of alcohol in the home where a person is no danger to the innocents on
our roads and highways (so long as alcohol is stored in such a way as
to be inaccessible to children). But reasonable people can agree that
to allow a person to consume alcohol, knowing that they have to drive
home, is irresponsible in the extreme.

Seeing these numbers and the very real impact their businesses have on
the lives of innocent Virginians and knowing how the owners of these
restaurants feel about their duty to our communities, I have no doubt
that they will be glad to support legislation banning alcohol sales in
restaurants. After all, this is not the Wild West. We do not need
saloons on every corner.

As a survivor of "alcohol violence," I ask this of Gov. Kaine and of
the owners of Virginia's many fine restaurants. If only one life can
be saved, then will it not be worth it? Do this for Virginia's
families! Do this for the children!

Posted by redleg1 (anonymous) on March 17, 2008 at 8:25 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I only have one question for those who live in Virginia and have an issue with Virginia's gun laws and our Concealed Carry Laws.
Why are you living here and not living in the District, which is your "Gun Free Utopia"?
The things that make you go Hmmmmm!!

Posted by redleg1 (anonymous) on March 17, 2008 at 8:49 p.m. (Suggest removal)