Interesting--BlackOut is certainly Glenn, but it was started by Eileen Levandoski, the former Communications Chair for the Loudoun County Democratic Committee. Del. Black WAS voted out, and the site remains a busy vehicle as an ostensibly Republican venue, which primarily attacks Republican officials. Welcome to Loudoun politics!

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 16, 2007 at 10:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I would encourage people to visit http://www.blackout2005.com/ to see political transparency at it's best. BlackOut captures Dick Black's quotes and voting record. It would be nice to see a similar factual compendium or record for other divisive so-called Republican candidates, candidates who divide communities and stereotype rather than address issues and solve problems. Anyone come to mind? That's Loudoun politics.

Posted by jonathan.weintraub (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 7:13 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Jonathan, are you still an officer in the Loudoun County Democratic Committee? I'm glad you're pumping the site, because it indicates that it is still primarily a Democratic political organ.

Since Delegate Black was voted out some time ago, I am curious as to the benefits of visiting there for the sole purpose of old news, unless of course it is to provide background material for the fake-Republican game in blogland that anyone targeted by the few, the anonymous is secretly an agent of Dick Black.

This fits with the heavy Democratic and Blackout involvement at the supposedly Republican blog TC, where the small cadre of regular "insider" participants are half-Dem.

I'm sure that it makes great sense for Democrats to devote time and effort to helping create the kind of "Republican" party they'd rather deal with (i.e., the preferred Loudoun electoral choice where it doesn't matter which candidate you choose, because they both have the good-ole-boy stamp of approval), particularly with the continued influx of new residents, who often do not have the time to sort through the fog of information pumped out at them.

By all means, put out your info, just please fly your flag while you do.

The usual labels don't really apply in Loudoun, because the only real issue here is the deathless struggle one between old and new, and it makes for very strange political bedfellows.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 9:23 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Nice move, Barb. Standard MO - obfuscate the issue with OT innuendo and claims of Democratic plots to overthrow the "real" Republican Party.

But more OT, I find it hard to understand how you can support a person who on the one hand says things like "invasions of illegal aliens who turn safe neighborhoods into filthy, crowded slums" and then wraps himself in religious piety to avoid answering for his words.

I sure hope you enjoyed your power position these past few years - the pendulum is again in full swing.

Posted by Eric101 (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 10:34 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Sure, Barbara - that's why a Republican running for school board is campaigning on his proud participation in Black Out. Sorry, but you can't rewrite history.

You're right, the "usual labels" don't apply in Loudoun. "Republican" here doesn't necessarily mean the same thing that people moving here from other regions might expect. It might, for example, mean someone of the persuasion of a Dick Black, who doesn't seem to think much of the Republican creed - especially the parts about all people being entitled to equal rights and justice, and preserving individual liberties.

It's apparent to many people in this county that the poisonous influence of Dick Black on our political process is still alive and well, and that, as much as you would like to make it one, is not a partisan issue.

Posted by david.danaan (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 10:35 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Well guys, its obvious this struck a nerve! Sorry, but my intent is not to rewrite history.

Eric, how can I support someone whose district I am not in? The same really holds true for all three of you guys: None of you live in either Black's (old) or Delgaudio's district. Isn't there enough going on in Catoctin and Blue Ridge?

The pendulum is ALWAYS in full swing in Loudoun, BECAUSE usual "labels" don't apply, and because it usually takes new folks an election cycle or two to find out who's talking to them and why. Precisely my point.

David, it is equally true that many new-arriving Democrats are puzzled by their local party, as evidenced by the spate of letters following the 03 election, asking "Who the hell is VSS and why are they in our party?" (VSS being the previous incarnation of Campaign for Loudoun's Future, and now more precisely Voters for Loudoun's Future, as both VSS and VLF are PACs. Same funding, same parent group, same people. New name. So of course, totally different and just a new member among the THOUSANDS of groups that all support the same single message out of the same bank account.)

David, just as I do not live in Sterling, cannot vote there, and am immaterial to the inner workings of that's district's election process, Delegate Black is currently equally immaterial because he was voted out of office several years ago. If he chooses to run again, that's another story IN HIS DISTRICT, which none of us lives in either.

His only usefulness to the current discussion is the way he is used by the various blogs and groups that your circle of activists participate in: as a boogeyman to paint others with, whether there is any pertinent connection or not.

What, are you guys suffering over having to deal with the illegal immigration issue? Take away the individual rhetoric and focus on JUST THE ISSUE of illegal immigration for a minute: the Dem candidates had to come on board, and that's quite something, isn't it?

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 11:52 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara,

You certainly didn't strike a nerve with me. I posted a link to the BlackOut site to give readers a chance to actually see Dick Black's record and to see that the site is well done and factual. There is no need to attack a candidate if his or her words speak for themselves. The same for the immigration issue. See Delgaudio's quote above. No reason to attack him. Just let him talk, and as you can see from his cowardly actions, he's afraid to talk when confronted with a real opponent who can speak to issues, policies and solutions.
btw, whatever happended to Citizens for Property Rights?

Posted by jonathan.weintraub (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 1:48 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Doesn't Delgaudio actually live in Fairfax County full time?

Posted by sbranner (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 3:01 p.m. (Suggest removal)

sbranner, that is a VERY old chestnut that gets trotted out every election. Nope, he apparently really does live in Sterling (unlike most of the people who spend a lot of time railing against him).

Jonathan, I believe Eileen used to describe her handiwork there with pride as "snarky". Some of it is indeed straight up postings of newsletters and voting records. And a whole lot more is way over the top, but that's y'all's business.

Now, back to the point: as an example it may be everything you wish it to be. It is also several elections old. Next?

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 6:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

p.s.Jonathan: CPR is still around, in fact they sent a rep to comment on the affordable housing plan at the public hearing (which, amazingly enough NO ONE from your party did, in spite of former candidate Tamar Datan Johnston's excellent work on the subject, and NO ONE from the ever-so-caring "sustainable" living lobbying industry did either). I see some of the members occasionally, and no, still haven't joined the group. Ta.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 6:32 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara - let's talk about illegal immigration then. I'm all about taking that bull by the horns. I am still waiting to hear a well thought out, detailed plan to deal with the issue - something with a little more depth than "deport them all" or "punish the employers". The fact of the matter is all we have is sound bites. Let's get right to it. Let's get some ideas out there.

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 8:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I repeat (in case my last posting didn't make it because I am blog challenged) - Barbara - thanks for getting to the point on your posting at 11:52am. There is way too much at stake in the illegal immigration debate to obssess over individuals who can only be properly analyzed by a psychiatrist. So lets get to it. Let's get some real ideas about what can be done here in Loudoun County to address the issue. And just skip the "deport them" or "punish the employer" sound bites. I am waiting for some well thought out plans that we can really wrap our brains around.

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 17, 2007 at 9:22 p.m. (Suggest removal)

How can Delgaudio live in Sterling, "represent" Sterling and still be such a racist? I would hope that the immigrants in Sterling show up at the polls this fall and let their voices be heard.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 11:41 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Give me a break, Barbara. No one will ever meet your definition of a real Republican unless they are all for any and every development proposal that comes down the pike. I am definitely not "half Dem", although I'll bet your Dulles District that you supposedly represent is "half Dem". I guess you just don't represent them, along with, I would bet, a majority of your Republican constituents. Your paranoia about the PEC should have a healthy counterpart doage of paranoia about the building industry. I can't wait until your boss and yourself are gone from the political scene, even if it means having to deal with arrogant bore-fest Stevens Miller for four years.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LI, I'm not the one with the small cadre of self-described "group A" pures who claim to be the majority, that's your blog, hon.

I haven't attempted to define "real" Republican either. I've only noted that some supposed Republicans spend so much time attacking Republicans (in the company of active and committed Democrats) that it looks pretty funny. (Your blog again there too, hon.)

Lunavalle, I think the most difficult part of discussing illegal immigration is that while it is a valid political issue, when treated as a local electoral one, it can become blurred.

I think locally we have to focus on the issues that ARE under our purview. That was why I was pleased to see novatownhall's thread a couple weeks ago that seemed to advise against going off half-cocked at York and Snow for being willing to explore a Loudoun day labor center if the Herndon one closed.

If indeed one can't have quality of life local ordinances like "no loitering" without having a place for people to go, according to existing court precedents, then those who wish to not simply move the day labor center issue from Herndon into Loudoun should be willing to discuss a center here.

My personal opinion is that there shouldn't be any issue with checking someone's legal status in a government funded center that exists to match people with jobs. I see nothing wrong with checking documentation at such a center.

The fact of the matter is that the fed, in spite of taking a whole $#!%load of our money, has not succeeded in securing the borders--all of the borders. We get the same trickle-down effect from fed inaction that we do with unfunded mandates like No Child Left Behind. We pay for things at both the state and federal level, and there are still problems here at the local. (Kind of like VDOT and our wonderful roads!)

So my opinion would be to get some of the ELECTORAL rhetoric out of it, and address the issues that CAN be addressed on a local level (and should be). Which would then send a POLITICAL message back up the ladder to the state and fed guys who play with our money and don't do their jobs.

I'm happy to keep discussing here Lunavalle, but that's a broad view of my opinion. I will say that it is very hard to draw lines on it. I understand the argument that if people are here, then they need to be dealt with, but where should those lines be drawn? Somewhere between emergency medical care at a community hospital and college tuition is a pretty broad plane.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 1:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara - I would love to meet with you sometime to talk more specifics. It will be intersting to see what the County Admin will come back with on Sept 4. I agree that there is a very broad plane, but I think that there is nothing that local governments can do to have a real impact on the issue. Day laborer centers are a very small part of the very large issue.
Your right, part of the problem is that they haven't shut down the border. I think that the other part of the problem is that the the nation, or at least the senate, wasn't ready to move forward with amnesty for the millions of undocumented already here. I just hope that local politicians don't rush into anything foolish in an attempt to back up all the electoral rhetoric.
Laura Valle

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 3:29 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara- I just took some time to read some old articles and stuff about you. One thing that struck me is this: Having grown up in Western Loudoun and mourned the loss of the beautiful countryside, while at the same time being the daughter of a builder whose support at times has been the only thing that kept my family from living in absolute poverty (social work doesn't pay well), I hear some similarities in the most vehement slow growthers and the outraged Sterling Park residents who feel their neighborhood is being destroyed. In both cases you have individuals who have not liked changes and are very critical about the way others live. While not every new Loudoun resident lives in a McMansion with two kids and 6 bedrooms, 5 acres of manicured lawn and a Hummer, likewise, certainly not every recent immigrant that lives in Sterling Park is renting out their closets as rooms and peeing outside. But all of these folks are part of what makes Loudoun's economy tick, for better or for worse.

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 3:44 p.m. (Suggest removal)

On another topic (since I can't start my own blog), I heard that Belmont Country Club has been killing the geese on their golf course since the are a bother. Any truth to that?

Posted by xcop (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 7:38 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I find it amusing that Barbara Munsey uses the Washington Post as a vehicle to get her message out, since she was often fond of whipping it out in derision in her rants before the Board. Maybe you don't try to define real Republican, but the whole witch hunt metality of the LCRC was spawned by the Citizens for Property Rights crowd who you are so fond of. And I'm not so blindly partisan that I will sit back and take it from supposed Republicans who want to disregard and disrespect their constituents. If that puts me in the same company as Democrats, so be it. Just try to remember that you supposedly serve all constituents, hon.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 18, 2007 at 10:18 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Luna, I don't think amnesty is the answer either. I don't know how old you are, so I don't know if you remember the amnesty following the Salvadoran war. There was similar rhetoric then on both sides, and fears that registering for the amnesty was just a dupe to find out people's status so they could be deported, and so on.

In addition, the numbers were much smaller in that case--in the thousands, instead of millions. The rationale included the special circumstances (which had also been reasoned during the civil war, that people were escaping inhuman conditions in their own country, and the situation was temporary), and went on to conclude that this was a one-time deal that would fix this one special condition.

Now we're talking blanket amnesty again? I'm sorry, but I believe that sends a message that if you just do it long enough and hard enough, you can do what you want.

Again, this is a matter of lines: we have borders, and pay government agencies a lot of money to maintain them. The borders are not secure. We have laws that regulate who can come, to do what, and for how long. They are not enforced. If every 20 years or so we then say "okay, wipe the slate and let's start over" (with the same ineffective system?) then we might as well just save ourselves a lot of public money and give up. (I don't advocate that, by the way! Sometimes it just feels good to imagine NOT writing a check to the fed to p!$$ away!)

As for some western Loudouners and rhetoric, I too can see similarities. Particularly in the comments that edge toward "those people" kind of generalizations. We are a county of immigrants too, and it always gives me a tickle when someone stands up in a meeting to say "I moved in last month, and new people are destroying the county".

Do you really think the land is being "destroyed"?

Life IS temporary, and the land will still be here long after the houses have passed away, because contrary to popular fiction, Nature is not "fragile"--just ask the folks in Jamaica after Dean goes through.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 9:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Ms. Munsey,

Guess who hires most of the illegal immigrants you are so concerned with, the development industry? Didn't you notice the correlation of booming illegal immigration in Loudoun and the mad rush of development? Illegals generally don't work in retail or offices. Now that the real estate market is tanking, partially due to over-demand which this board stoked, it is time to discard the workers whose usefulness has become a political liability.

BTW....When will you and your benefactor Mr. Snow realize that you are supposed to SERVE EVERYONE in Dulles South. We may be Republican, Democrat, or Independent (as in my case), what REALLY matters is that we are all the taxpaying citizens you have fiduciary responsibility towards. What angers most of us is you and Mr. Snow's absolute unwillingness to even begin to listen to the views of those you are obligated to represent. Your actions over the last few years have been dismissive, inflammatory, rude, embarrassing to Loudoun County and outright unprofessional. At a minimum they demonstrate intellectual laziness. More than likely it indicates a clear, premediated bias towards the development community over the voting community, or possibly something much more sinister, i.e. outright corruption.

We look forward to the day, coming in a few months, when you and Mr. Snow will be out of office and back to being normal citizens whose only voice is the blogs and hearings you now dominante. However, I am quite confident that those who replace you will not treat you in the derogatory manner you have treated others. History will look back at the reign of the STDS as the Dark Ages of Loudoun County.

Posted by tconway (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 9:20 a.m. (Suggest removal)

LI, it is obvious from your own blog (is it still called "A Northern Virginia Republican Viewpoint"? Funny name for an exclusive circle of Loudoun gossip) that you either do not understand or are opposed to an OPEN FORUM.

As noted, anyone who doesn't bob heads with you and the other caped crusaders gets chased out of town with a flaming pitchfork. I don't always agree with the Post either on Loudoun, but why should that prevent me from participating here (under a real name)?

(I also think it's pretty funny that out of all the jursidictions the Post serves, LOUDOUN was selected for this new online venue. Wouldn't be an election year, would it?)

Was it your hope that this new blog would be a place for you to get your message out to a wider audience without pesky interference from other people? I've seen you delete commentary from your own blog that you disagree with, so you can always sugggest removal of my comments here. I don't think the Post will do that unless I break their actual published rules though.

I know a lot of folks in CPR, and like them. Guess what? Where do you think the land for your and my houses came from?

I am not a member of the LCRC, sorry. I can't "blindly" follow what I don't belong to.

Speaking of blindly following, facts are not paranoia, although I'm sure it feels good to dismiss it that way. And the PEC must not be so huge if they quoted a report by proxy through one front group for another front group that has fake numbers, and have been seeking since April a replacement for the second front group (apply to PEC) that has now been re-imaged as an "Online Advocacy Coordinator" (apply to PEC).

IOW, they pay a staff (out of their multimillion dollar annual budget) to construct websites and crank out alerts and e-mails, and voila! the mailing lists they collect through their fake petitions ("15,000 Loudoun voters" = Loudoun does NOT have 49 zipcodes, and why did employees of PEC sign mulitple times? And it was handed in nearly 5 months late to "check for inaccuracies? Snort!) get transformed into the "majority".

Check the tax returns.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 9:24 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi Mr. Conway--glad to see you posted here with your statement about "STDS".

I see--developers are the only source of illegal immigration. Let's forget for a minute that several layers of contractors exist between day laborers and Brookfield or any other company. Restaurants, office cleaning companies, oh, and farms? They all fully comply all the time.

Both of our houses are new, aren't they? Relatively speaking.

Signed, BM

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 9:31 a.m. (Suggest removal)

AT LAST! A real political discussion on this website! Glad to see it. If you want to see some information on a Board of Supervisor candidate who wants to solve Loudoun's most important issues, check out this site! www.Miller4Dulles.com

Posted by jstafford (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 9:50 a.m. (Suggest removal)

There is no spell check here so forgive me. I don't have time to go through and edit.
Barbara - I am young but my husband actualy grew up through the war in El Salvador and his family lost everything, including many loved ones. Also, I study history. So I am qualified to comment!
Amnesty and refugee status as an actual category that exists in our legal immigration system is quite different from the term "amnesty" that is being used politically in regards to granting a legal status to undocumented immigrants already here in our country today.
There was a massive amount of refugee and amnesty status given to Salvadorians during and after the war there. They had to go through a very rigourous process to prove that status. That opportunity (to escape persecution and war) is part of what our country is all about.
I believe that Reagan also allowed for undocumented immigrants to adjust their status once they were here as well. He was on to something with that. The problem is that the US did not shut down the borders after that. That would still be a problem today, which is what I seem to understand as the main fear that most people have. They feel that if you let all the lawbreakers adjust their status you will only encourage more immigrants to come here illegally. We could prevent that from happening if we were to really shut down the border (or at least to a trickle) and go after human trafficers with everything we've got. I also think that we need to more categories and opportunities for LEGAL entry.
And BTW, if Loudoun were to ask business to somehow vouch that they do not have illegal immigrants employed than Lansdowne, Tuskies, Lightfoot, Clydes, almost every other hotel and restaurant I can think of, almost every construction (and I wonder about Deitz construction though that is one that I don't know for sure) and landscape company I can think of, the Hospital, most nursing homes, every fast food resteraunt, and even the County itself, would be lying (perhaps unknowingly) if they said they did not. That is just the begining of the list BTW, I could go on with employers that I know about for hours. There are some companies that do not hire undocumented. One that I can think of off hand would be Giant and I think that it is because they are union and the hiring and training process etc. is so vigerous.

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 10:54 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, Too Conservative (TC) is very much an OPEN forum, contrary to your assertion. Anyone who can read can easily see that there are a number of viewpoints expressed there, including regular bashers of myself and TC. I'm sorry that they can take the heat and you can't.

I do agree with your statements in immigration, although I'm certain that you believe it's all a great big PEC conspiracy to limit your free will.

There is no doubt that the housing industry and the agricultural industry are the two biggest employers of illegal immigrants. Two industries that are often directly at odds with each other. Convenience and monetary concerns can make for strange bedfellows.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 11:28 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Luna, I wasn't making any judgments about your qualifications. I just didn't know whether you were of an age to remember the rhetoric of that time as it occurred.

I was in college then, and worked in a bar in DC, where we had several Salvadoran workers. One man I will never forget: he had had his own tailoring business back home, and he and his wife came here (legally), leaving their children with her mother.

He worked three jobs, none of which were in his discipline, and his wife worked two. Between them they were supporting two whole families back home.

Obviously he had no time to attend English classes, but I think one of the reasons the English he had was so good was his habit of carrying a notebook in his shirt pocket.

He wrote down any word he heard, or saw on a delivery truck or in a headline. At break time, he'd get out his book in the staff room and ask, what is this? What does it mean? How do you say it? Then the rest of the shift you'd hear him repeating "meadow...meadow...meadow" while he did his work.

After they had been here a couple of years, he and his wife had another child--a citizen.

He was already well on the way to citizenship before any amnesty was discussed, and bear in mind that during the war, while there were many people granted status because of the war, many more came illegally at that time as well.

What are your opinions on granting citizenship at birth, regardless of someone's visa status?

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 12:21 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I do not believe that birthright citizenship will change. It came up a few years ago and the idea of changing that was blown out of the water.

On another note, and back to the blog, I read in Tammi's section of the Washington Post Loudoun section that Delgaudio said he is only taking calls from constituents and is not working with national organizations and other groups or somthing along those lines. I guess he made an exception when he spoke at the inauguration of the Help Save Fairfax group. I will be calling him personaly and inviting him to attend the August 26 community meeting at Christ the Redeemer church in Sterling. He seems to think himself so important that the event is all about him when in reality it is about providing information about the County Resolution to concerned residents, a majority of whom live in his district. I had hoped that if he were to actually come and talk and answer questions himself then there would be absolutly no way that we could be accused of being partial. What do you all think about that?

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 2:56 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He doesn't want to be in a position where his ignorance shows to more than just a few at a time... He won't show.

Posted by qazwsxedcrfv (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 6:28 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Luna, I saw coverage of the Fairfax event on novatownhall. He may have been present in response to Help Save Loudoun people who are his constituents.

I don't know if I understand your question--If Delgaudio comes to a meeting you are organizing, then you can't be accused of being partial? You signed one post Laura; are you the Director of La Voz?

I don't know how to put those two thoughts together and come up with any accusations.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 19, 2007 at 10:37 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barb wrote:

'We are a county of immigrants too, and it always gives me a tickle when someone stands up in a meeting to say "I moved in last month, and new people are destroying the county".'

So Barb, what you apparently are saying is anyone who has moved INTO this county has no place standing up in "meetings" and criticizing new development? Is this the bias that you bring to your position? Do you really discount public comment opinions based on that test? "Um...excuse me Mr. Jones...but how LONG have you lived in Loudoun County?"

Posted by Eric101 (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 8:53 a.m. (Suggest removal)

That is EXACTLY the attitude of the CPR crowd, Eric. Their mantra is "You should bow down and be thankful that we provided you with your wonderful home". One slow growth supporter actually had one of the CPR leaders tell him that they wished they could have closed the doors first to have kept him out. They are the royalty of the LCRC and demand to be obeyed. They want the influx of citizens to buy their houses, yet they should know their place and keep their mouths shut. And what makes the least sesne politically, they profess themselves to be great Republicans yet their land use and development policies are turning Loudoun into a Democratic stronghold for the foreseeable future. Density equals Democrats - just look at the red vs. blue county map from the last election. But what do they care, they'll have their millions and be living in Florida or out west.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 10:02 a.m. (Suggest removal)

lunavalle (2:56)It will be very interesting to see if Mr. Delgaudio takes up the offer to attend the Christ the Redeemer community meeting. After all it is in his district and many of his constituents will be there. You would think Mr. Delgaudio would see this as a great day to fly the orange flag. Unfortunately, my guess is he will continue to avoid the audience and the real issue. It's unfortunate Sterling is represented by such a self-aggrandizing individual. Mr. Delgaudio is only interested in re-election and exploiting a REAL issue for his own personal gain. Why in the world would he not want to take ever chance he can get to receive all the information he can. His current pattern is to only listen to "save(enteryourtown)now" type organizations. Mr. Delgaudio I have news for you, that is only one side of this issue. Open up your eyes and consider the big picture. Anything else exposes your ignorance to the issue, and your disinterest in solving a real issue facing Loudoun.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 12:03 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Mr. Delgaudio has made it known that he doesn't consider "those people" to be his constituents.

Posted by david.danaan (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Word has it Mr. Delgaudio is not only planning to boycott the Christ the Redeemer event; an excellent opportunity to discuss the Loudoun immigration issue, but that he is also actively trying to shut down the event. Word has it he is working behind the scenes to persuade the church to shut their doors to this event. He wants it cancelled. Someone needs to check with the Pastor and the Archibishop to confirm this rumor. It wouldn't surprise me, Mr. Delgaudio has earned a reputation for doing such things.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 12:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Eric, you just love to assign words and their meanings to others, don't you?

I find it extra humorous that you yourself have played the "I've lived here since..." card in advocating some of your own issues.

I said, and will repeat, that I find it very funny when people do not see the irony of, and are perfectly comfortable with, statements that seem on their very surface to be contradictory.

As you are well aware, anyone, whether they even live in the county or not, has the right to stand up in any public meeting they wish and say whatever they wish as long as it is not libelous, defamatory, profane, etc. IT DOESN'T EVEN HAVE TO BE FACTUALLY CORRECT.

I do not discount comments based on the "how long have you lived here" "test". But you know darn good and well that a significant percentage of commenters either present the IMPRESSION (and sometimes outright demand) that THEIR OWN opinion be given greater weight based on their own longevity--which sometimes post-dates the person whose opinion they oppose, at which point the commentary often degenerates into who is prettier or more special.

Kind of like some of the commentary on immigration!

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 2:47 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LI, whatever will you do when you run out of boogeymen? There are plenty of people who have been here as long as some CPR members (or longer), who do NOT belong to that group, and who resent like hell the loss of what they call "the welcoming atmosphere" of Loudoun, and they subscribe a lot of that loss to people who came here not to buy a home but a "lifestyle".

Think about it--lots of folks bought large lots that they pay for with a 50-mile commute, and they weren't the only ones with that idea! They've got a lot more neighbors than they want, and a much longer drive than they "deserve", and they are the very folks who state for the record that they just moved in and want no one else to come.

It is not realistic, and the "boogeyman!" approach does nothing productive. For anyone.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 2:55 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Hi Glenn and David.

It remains to be seen what Mr. Delgaudio will do. When something factual (as opposed to speculative) occurs, let's discuss it.

Glenn, you can't vote for/against Delgaudio either, can you?

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 2:59 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Luna, I read that the woman who had been in sanctuary in the Chicago church had been arrested and deported when she travelled to LA to speak at a rally.

Apparently the group Without Borders is continuing the cause, even though the woman has been deported before and again entered the country illegally, on behalf of the rights of her son, who was born here.

Do you feel that citizenship at birth is a topic worth discussing? It may be.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 3:12 p.m. (Suggest removal)

As hard as it may be for some people to hear, I don't know how she could not have been deported. She must have had a deportation hearing and was deemed removable. I don't think we should question citizenship at birth. I also don't think that we could ask ICE to make an exception for this woman. I don't know enough about the objectives of her protest to say any more, I'm going to read up on it.
Laws are really important things to have. I think that the laws need to be changed so that they work for our nation. They are not working now.

Laura V.

Posted by lunavalle27 (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barb,

Two things -

First, saying that my taxes have gone up by double digits for the last ten+ years thanks to unbridled growth is NOT playing the "I've lived here since..." card. It is stating a fact. Even people who have only lived here a few years have felt the pain your developer buddies have inflicted on the taxpayers of this county.

Second, it was you who stated that the new residents' comments give you "a tickle". Somehow the vision of a Planning Commissioner contemptuously chuckling at a citizen's public comment does not quite meet my definition of "due respect".

Posted by Eric101 (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 4:06 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, you and the CPR crowd certainly have your own "boogeyman" approach with the PEC and anyone for limited growth. Both sides of this issue are prone to hyperbole, but the CPR crowd is just so downright rude and crude about it that they will not win a majority of citizens over to their side. Yourself, Elgin, and Volpe have an amazingly grating way of questioning citizens opposing development or simply asking hard questions, while seemingly always being deferential to the developers. People notice this kind of behavior, and will certainly remember it on election day.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 4:36 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I sure wish I could vote AGAINST Mr. Delgaudio. He has become the poster child for Loudoun Republicans. His seniority and his so called leadership puts him in the catbird seat. When someone thinks of the current Loudoun Republican leadership, Mr. Delgaudio is the first person to come to mind. I happen to think this is a bad thing. A very bad thing for Republicans and a very bad thing for Loudoun residents. Additionally, Mr. Delgaudio currently sits as chairman of the powerful BOS finance committee. Unfortunately, because of these two things, Mr. Delgaudio is affecting every citizen of Loudoun. Ms. Munsey has been defending and apologizing for Mr. Delgaudio for years. She has done a very good job of explaining the idiocies of Mr. Delgaudio. Ironically, in all the years Ms. Munsey has been doing this she can't vote for him either.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 5:11 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, that is too funny (ref: 2:59)! Have you forgotten that I run a nonpartisan county-wide organization, Equality Loudoun? Part of our mission is to provide voter information, and Mr. Delgaudio has given us a rich trove of material over the years. He doesn't consider the gay community to be his constituents, he doesn't consider those who don't share his religious beliefs to be his constituents, and he doesn't consider those who speak Spanish ("They shouldn't bother trying to talk to me") to be his constituents. You really need to get some new material. You were saying the same thing in 2003 and it was just as irrelevant then as it is now.

Posted by david.danaan (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 6:43 p.m. (Suggest removal)

David, I haven't forgotten that you are also Equality Loudoun, I just thought we were talking about illegal immigration and Democratic politics in Loudoun. (Can I have my own too funny moment and visualize you discussing illegal alien gay rights with the gang over at novatownhall?)

Granted, you and Jonathan seem to be the bulk of what discussion there is on the LCDC web, but I know the LCDC and Equality Loudoun are separate organizations in which you both are active.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 9:20 p.m. (Suggest removal)

LI, there is a long trail of public record that shows the overwhelming amount of money and influence exerted by a very small group through the concentric umbrellas of PEC. There is a big difference between citing tax records et al, and inferring corruption by saying one of the three names you hate in connection with anyone else you wish to harm.

Thanks for the new thread about me--two in one week. I'm not running for anything, but that doesn't matter, does it? I'm here, and you obviously don't like it.

Eric, finding the remarks of some new residents to be incongruous doesn't mean I don't take the fact they are making them seriously.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 20, 2007 at 9:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

And anyone wonders why voters are apathetic?

Look at this thread! I'd rather vote for my dog most times. He has all the attributes I look for in a candidate. He's cute but could probably stand for a hair cut. He's attentive to my needs, maybe too much so - especially if I have food. He knows exactly what he wants and doesn't lie to get it. When he wants food, he begs. When he wants affection, he begs. When he wants to go out, he begs. When he's done something wrong, he's sorry (downside=he'll do it again in three minutes but for the moment, he genuinely sorry.) If he sleeps with another “person”, it’s OK because he’s there to protect and provide companionship…oh and to keep warm. So he’s not perfect! OK, he does lick himself and eat out of the litter box.

The only special interest influence is if someone else has food or another dog or cat. Past that, he's loyal and trustworthy. His motives are pristine and apparent for all to see.

Yep, that seals it for me...I'm voting for my dog in the next election. The cat on the other hand...that feline would do a perp walk in a heart beat!

Posted by cer10death (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 5:40 a.m. (Suggest removal)

"Eric, finding the remarks of some new residents to be incongruous doesn't mean I don't take the fact they are making them seriously."

Way to split hairs, Barb. Sure sounds like you are saying "I don't take the opinions of new residents seriously (in fact I really don't think they have earned a place at the table). But FOR THE RECORD, I take every public comment seriously." Might not be what you meant (although I think you are being abundantly clear on the issue) but that's how it sounds.

Posted by Eric101 (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 9:21 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara, the "overwhelming amount of money and influence" exerted by the PEC is a drop in the bucket compared to the development-building-real estate industry. You are so blind! Don't be too full of yourself, the current top story at TC is not about you, even though I mention your name. Believe me, I am absolutely giddy that you are here rambling on and on and on. You are the second best motivator (second only to Snow himself) to ensure that people vote for Anybody But Snow.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 10:04 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Eric, I know better than to split hairs with the master. I see you are over at TC playing the usual game of assuming that someone is me. I can only offer to you what I have offered to LI--I contribute here, and on the Broadlands forum, under my own name. I only read TC and do not play there, because it is a zero-sum game. LI, as far as heat and kitchens, as I've said before, using one's real name shows a lot more respect for the heat. A very few of your contributors use them, yourself not included. I must say, Blackout does a lot better in public forums where he must use his own name--at public hearings he is unfailingly courteous and reasonable.

LI, in my opinion a 3-5 million dollar annual lobbying industry, as well as large in-kind campaign donations through the services of umbrella groups is not a drop in the bucket

If you and Blackout now want to use the Broadlands forum to pump up your ability to use TC as a campaign site for anyone but Republicans, it's your blog. I would hesitate to recommend attempting to take the fight too strongly over there, as it is a resident's forum to which I, and others, have the privilege of belonging although we are not residents.

By the way, how do you pay for your blog? It is a very sharp and professional site that is now really almost exclusively devoted to Loudoun campaign gossip by a very small group. I know its none of my business, but does advertising cover the expense?

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 11:25 a.m. (Suggest removal)

I don't pay a thing for TC, it was created and is maintained by young political phenom Vincent Harris, aka Too Conservative. He invited me on as a poster since he enjoyed my commentary way back when. I've somewhat monopolized the site lately since Vincent is in college at Baylor and is the national blogger for the Mike Huckabee campaign. Advertising just about covers the web hosting costs, but other than that there is really no cost associated with it, other than time and effort. Even though you wish it to be so, TC is not participated in or viewed by "a very small group". I'll ask Vincent to send me the latest readership stats. I can't help it everyone connected with Loudoun politics reads TC. It's simply a vehicle for my thoughts on the political scene in Loudoun County, which I find to be poisonous. You will certainly say that TC is poisonous, but this is purely in response to the venom spewed by the likes of Delgaudio, Snow, and Tulloch.
I've chosen to take a step back from my business to expose the system for what it is, with 2.5 months to go until election day, when I can get back to a normal life with a clear conscience that I did my part as a concerned citizen. Loudoun County is full of extremely smart and talented people, and an awful lot of them are unhappy with the way the "Gang of Five" have ruled this county. As anyone who reads TC knows, we are most definitely not "a campaign site for anyone but Republicans" since we are big fans of Lori Waters, a real conservative who has stood up to the Good Old Boy Network, and actually has the ability to work across the aisle. Frank Wolf and Joe May are also respected at TC. As far as taking the fight to the Broadlands forum, I've never posted there and have no desire too, since I don't live there. I agree it should remain a community forum, even though you persist in injecting yourself and your love of anything Snow there. I'm surprised you don't have a photo or testimonial up at the new Snow website.

Posted by loudouninsider (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 12:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

"I just thought we were talking about illegal immigration and Democratic politics in Loudoun." Now that is really puzzling. I can find nothing in the original post, or in the comment thread, about "Democratic politics in Loudoun," and none of this seems to have anything to do with partisan politics at all, save for Mr. Delgaudio's behavior. I think that this (both immigration and the odd behavior of the Sterling supervisor) is pretty clearly a matter that interests everyone in the community, regardless of party affiliation - as the comments of several Republicans would attest. It could very well be that you are imagining things, Barbara, but I won't make any inferences about your possible motives.

Posted by david.danaan (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 2:30 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Barbara,

Don't tell anyone but TC is funded by the PEC.

Posted by maravetz (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 3:19 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Thanks David.

LI, I'm aware of what you consider to be a good Republican, and how narrow a consideration that can be.

I'm glad you don't seem to want to take the games to the Broadlands site, because it is a great community forum. The same holds true there as here, I guess, where if you follow the (published, non-subjective) rules you are allowed to participate.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 3:51 p.m. (Suggest removal)

Glenn, I don't think LI said that.

Posted by barbara_munsey (anonymous) on August 21, 2007 at 3:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

The only comment that I have concerns the fact that Mr. Del Gaudio called a decorated retired Colonel in the US Air Force a "coward". But before I continue, in the interest of openess, I must state that I am also a retired officer and a member of the Loudoun County Democratic Committee and may be biased but the last time I looked, a decorated veteran of the first Iraq war can hardly be called a coward. I also know that what you say about others says more about you than it does about them.

Posted by AnthonyFasolo (anonymous) on August 22, 2007 at 8:55 a.m. (Suggest removal)

Howdy folks.

I just wanted to chime in and say that it seems that so many people are missing the boat on the immigration issues. The fact of the matter is, whether you consider an immigrant who didn't follow established procedures to get here "illegal" or "undocumented", they all came here because our government, our employers, our law enforcement, and our SOCIETY both ENCOURAGED and ALLOWED it to happen. The reasons are many, varied, and certainly very complex.

The single most important factor at this point is what the federal government has not done to fix the current mess. But EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, the ire that is being directed at the people (they are HUMAN BEINGS) who have come here to work and build lives, families, businesses, etc. is MISDIRECTED. That is the problem--the nativists and most of the "Help Save" types (save from WHAT?) are TARGETING the people, not the policy and actions that will actually fix the problem.

This is not a local issue and should not be made into one. The "Help Save" lobby will spew unfactual statements about how much these immigrants are costing us, but they should wait for the facts. The recent studies I've seen published, included some printed in the NY Times, indicate the exact opposite is true with most immigrants--that in fact they pay more tax money into the "system" that they are withdrawing in services. There are too many taxes that cannot be escaped. The NY Times study indicated that the payroll taxes that immigrant workers are paying is what is keeping Social Security from becoming closer to insolvency at the moment.

The only common ground I see here is the issue of tightening the borders, border security, etc. That should be done NOW, and FIRST!

Then we can talk about the appropriate solutions for getting everyone here already documented and living "above the table." After that, we need to address the inadequacy, bureacracy, and ridiculousness of the current entrance process. There need to be more categories for entrants and way more numbers per year.

That's the only way this nightmare is going to go away.

DMV

PS By the way, the neighborhood and quality of life issues are very valid. Zoning ordinances need to be refined and enforced to prevent some neihgborhood degradation. But as Laura Valle has pointed out, and I saw this in Sterling Park as a 7-year resident there, the problems associated with run-down properties are HARDLY coming only from immigrant households. Some are. But this MUST NOT be allowed to become a racial/ethnic profiling scenario. Absolutely not, and Delgaudio deserves all the derision that comes his way for fostering that feeling.

Posted by DouginMountVernon (anonymous) on August 22, 2007 at 11:42 a.m. (Suggest removal)

You should have seen this guy work the crowd at the Frampton concert on Sunday. He was decked out in hunter orange!

I agree with Anthony Fasolo's comment on cowardice...right up to the point where the Colonel decided not to face his critics for fear it would harm his re-election chances. I am the son of a retired flag officer...I know my father a man of the highest regard in both his military and civilian career. Above reproach.

With all due respect...we're not talking about the same things. The fortitude he demonstrated to become a decorated senior officer should translate to his civilian life. I can say with candor that the Colonel's actions "appear" to be less than that in this regard. Certainly not to the standard I would expect from a decorated Colonel. Maybe I need to adjust for defection and elevation on this one but my father was "the best of the best".

Posted by cer10death (anonymous) on August 28, 2007 at 8:07 p.m. (Suggest removal)

I believe that anyone living close to or in Sterling Park that is not an illegal alien is at least sympathetic or in support of Delgaudio. Having been a resident of Loudoun for the last 24 years, it is disheartening to see what is happening to Sterling Park and other areas of Loudoun. What am I talking about? Overcrowded housing, unkempt lawns and yards, higher crime with the majority of it being immigrants (from Loudoun e-mail alerts), a huge rise in gang crime, non-English speaking or barely English speaking employees at most fast food, restaurants and department stores to name a few. I applaud Delgaudio because he has the guts to speak out regardless of those who will ridicule or label him. Loudoun has many problems with illegals and it needs to be addressed. It is time residents of Loudoun speak out and support Delgaudio.

Posted by MORTBK (anonymous) on August 30, 2007 at 4:08 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MORTBK...rarely, if ever, do I get as animated as I am now after reading your drivel. Therefore, it would be my unique pleasure and duty as an American – exercising my First Amendment rights, as such – to take you to task for the tone of your post.

Sir/Madame, let me direct your attention to read the papers of the 20's through the 40's! They are in English…so you should have no trouble with the language barrier you so disdain.

Permit me to paraphrase for you using almost your exact words: "It is disheartening to see what is happening to NYC (Boston, Philly - insert your East Coast city name here) and other areas of this fine city!"" What am I talking about?" "Overcrowded housing, unkempt lawns (OK, you got me. This one is a stretch for NYC, Philly or Boston.), higher crime with the majority of it being immigrants, a huge rise in gang crime, etc..."

Those papers go on to say: "Those IMMIGRANTS – the authors of the day actually used the terms pejorative terms for Italians, Jews, Blacks, Polish, Irish and Chinese- ARE RUINING OUR WAY OF LIFE!!!! OH GOD! DO SOMETHING!!!! CLOSE THE BORDERS! AUNTIE EM! AUNTIE EM!”

Admittedly, you didn’t go THAT far, I think you sure as heck stopped perilously close to that, "my friend". Talk about xenophobia! (BTW, since you love the English language as much as I do, please look it up!) Holy Brown Smelly Cow Effluent!

Continuing my sarcastic rant: you must be very proud of your Native American heritage? It must be an honor and privilege to know that your parentage didn't have to immigrate to this great land. Oh wait...pardon me...I believe I'm incorrect. Statistically, that would make you less than 1% of the population...a person whose parents NEVER IMMIGRATED to the US. From ANYWHERE on the planet.

Let me be the first to call your hypocrisy out in the open, Sir/Madame. With such a racist tone to your post, Mr. Delgaudio...who no doubt is a child of an IMMIGRANT...will have no trouble flushing his American dream summarily down the toilet.

BTW…I’m embarrassed that you and this man call yourselves Republicans. Maybe it’s time for me to reconsider my party affiliation. I'm so glad the GOP has the intellectual firepower to muster an original argument and solution instead of vomiting up age old rhetoric! Is this the best you have? Next thing you'll tell me is the Communists are moving in next door!

Posted by cer10death (anonymous) on August 30, 2007 at 8:57 p.m. (Suggest removal)

cer10death, what an idiotic ranting.........

Posted by MORTBK (anonymous) on August 31, 2007 at 4:52 p.m. (Suggest removal)

MORTBK...yours was better.

Are you a homophobe too?

Posted by cer10death (anonymous) on September 1, 2007 at 5:19 a.m. (Suggest removal)